|
PAGES 401 to 415
PAGE 401
refresh him with or impeach him with. MR. McMAHON: I thought he was going to try to impeach him, and there wasn't anything pending. THE COURT: That's what I thought, too, but I think we have that ironed out, I think. MR. RENSCH: So everybody knows, the predicate questions I asked him about him claiming that she was begging in the car, that's what this impeaches, that's why I was asking those previous questions. THE COURT: Let me look at what you are looking at. MR. RENSCH: Right here. MR. McMAHON: I don't think that even talks about it. MR. RENSCH: I think a prior inconsistent statement. MR. McMAHON: Why is it inconsistent? MR. RENSCH: Because he said she was begging in the car, here it says she wasn't. It says what ever she was stating to him when she was by herself with him in the car. MR. McMAHON: What ever she was saying, it doesn't say she wasn't saying. MR. RENSCH: If she wasn't saying, that would imply. THE COURT: I don't think so, but you can do what you want, but that doesn't mean I am not going to sustain an objection, we will see. (End Bench Conference ). JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 402
Q. Sir, you have just indicated to us that Ms. Pictou-Aquash was saying things to Arlo while he was alone in the car, and that's what Arlo had reported to you, okay. I would like to ask you if you made this statement on another occasion. Page 8. Statement by you. And he and Anna Mae stayed in the car, and what ever he was saying, and I don't, see what I think is I don't think that whatever she was saying to him when he was by himself with her in that car, I think she was saying the same things to the rest of them when they were going. Did you make that statement, sir? A. Say that again, it's confusing. Q. Here, let me show it to you. So much for that. A. Yeah, I probably said that, but I don't, I am confused by the question. Q. You don't really remember where it was that Arlo was saying Ms. Pictou-Aquash was asking to be let go, do you, sir? A. No, I do remember. It was in the car, because when John Boy and Theda went in to that house, alright, she was having this conversation with him not to, about to let her go, her begging. Q. What did he say his response was to her? A. That he couldn't do anything. Q. Did he say anything to her about not thinking that she was going to be killed that you recall? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 403
Q. Do you know an individual by the name of John Graham? A. Yes, I do. Q. How do you know him? A. Well, I met John Boy, I know him as John Boy, but I met him in the spring of 1976. Q. Okay. You sundanced with him, didn't you? A. Yes, I did. Q. What does that mean to sundance with somebody? A. I can't say what it means for everybody. For me, you know, it is like, it is making an offering, it's an offering of yourself either in return for help that has been given, or, so it is a personal physical sacrifice that is part of a mental psychological sacrifice that you make to the people for this endurance. Q. Do you do that in a circle? A. Yes. Q. Was John Boy in the circle? A. He was sundancing, yes, he was. Q. After that point did John Boy take on some position of prominence within the American Indian Movement? A. Not that I recall. I mean when you say position of prominence, I can't say that. Q. He continued to remain active in the American Indian Movement ? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 404
the FBI thing was taking place in Cedar Rapids, and then I went to the sundance. Actually maybe it had already, the trial was over, and then I went to the sundance. And John Boy was there, because I had some involvement with him there at the sundance, and then I don't really remember seeing John Boy again until 1980. I am not going to say I didn't, or '79 and '80. So he kind of, I mean see I lived in my own reality, my family was in Nevada, and I was doing what I was doing. So I wasn't around a lot of activities, but I don't remember seeing John Boy again until about '80, '79 or '80. Q. If you were friends with Anna Mae, why, if Arlo said these things to you in '88, why didn't you call the police and do something about it? A. Because I told Arlo that I would say that what he said to me he said in it in confidence. And I have to respect that, because I felt it was something he wanted to get off his chest, and the reality of it is what he said to me, I had to respect the confidentiality, but at the same time I wanted to know, because up to that time there had been many rumors Anna Mae had been spotted here and spotted there, there had been many rumors around '75, '76, but nobody really knew what happened. But when I talked to Arlo, it made it more concise to me. I mean go to police, pragmatic, I mean no offense, but my relationship with the United States government isn't a real JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 405
to be a pawn and be used against my own people. No, I don't want that, and what if what is being said is a mistake. So I can't just, yes. I wanted to know what happened to Anna Mae, and I kept my agreement to Arlo until later when I see it in the news from Indian Country these are the things that Arlo has said, and somewhere because I wasn't the source of that information, and then I knew alright, I can now publicly do this. Q. Let me ask you, based upon what you heard as you looked in to Arlo's eyes as he was telling you these things, was it your impression that he wanted her to die? A. Was it my impression that what? Q. Arlo wanted her to die based on what he said? A. No. Q. Was it your impression that he wanted to help see that she died when he told you what had happened? A. No, because he wouldn't have told me if he wanted those things to happen, but those things did happen. MR. RENSCH: Thank you, sir. That's all. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Mr. Trudell, you remember the fact that Mr. Looking Cloud told you Anna Mae was begging for her life in the car? A. Yes, I do. Q. You remember that? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 406
Q. And you remember the fact that he was, she was begging for her life all the while she was walking out to that cliff with them? A. Yes, I do. Q. And she begged them not to kill her? A. Yes. Q. She talked about her two daughters? A. She was saying what are her daughters going to do. See, Anna Mae love her daughters very much, because the time I knew her whatever went on in her family and her daughters, I knew that was a very traumatic thing for her to not have her daughters, so she talked about them, I mean before this. Her daughters were a very focal point in her life, and that night when they were walking her, yes, she was talking about her daughters. Q. I think you said in response to a question by Mr. Rensch that once they came out of that house on the Rosebud they were under instructions to kill her? A. Somebody was. Q. And they went and did that? A. Yes. MR. McMAHON: That's all I have. THE COURT: Anything further? RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RENSCH: JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 407
for her to be killed? A. I don't remember the exact words, alright, but they came out of that house. John Boy, or Arlo told me John Boy and Theda came out of that house and they drove from there and took her out and walked her and killed her. Maybe he didn't say the exact words you are trying to get me to say, but basically he said that, because see, they weren't -- Q. Is it possible? A. It's not something they thought up on their own. Q. Is it possible what Arlo was describing to you was him sitting out in the car, these two coming out of the house, getting in the car, driving to a point, stopping the car, and then this activity took place? A. Say that again? MR. RENSCH: Forget it, nothing further. THE COURT: Anything further? MR. McMAHON: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you, you may step down. We will take our noon recess now, and I went a little longer because I wanted the witness to be able to finish his testimony. So you are excused, thank you. So we will be in recess until 1:30 this afternoon, thank you. Please stand for the jury. (Recess at 12:20 until 1:30). THE COURT: Bring in the jury, please. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 408
THE COURT: Call your next witness. MR. MANDEL: The United States would call Bob Ecoffey, Your Honor. ROBERT ECOFFEY, called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and said as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Sir, would you please state your name? A. My name is Robert G. Ecoffey. Q. Where are you from? A. Albuquerque, New Mexico. Q. Is that where you are originally from, sir? A. No, I am from Pine Ridge, South Dakota. Q. What is your occupation? A. I am the Deputy Director for the Office of Law Enforcement Services for the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Q. How long have you held that position, sir? A. Approximately three years. Q. Can you give me a recap of your law enforcement background and training, sir? A. Yes. I have approximately 28 years in law enforcement starting back in 1975, and I have a Bachelor of Arts degree in JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 409
criminal justice from Chadron State College, graduate of FBI National Academy. I have hundreds of hours in terms of investigative homicide courses, in terms of forensic homicide investigations, crime scene investigations, and sex crimes investigations. Q. Over the course of years what law enforcement positions have you held? A. I first started my law enforcement career on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 1975 as a law enforcement trainee working for the Tribe under the SETA program. I was assigned to work with the Bureau of Indian Affairs police department there in 1975. 1976 I started my official career with the Bureau of Indian Affairs as a supervisory guard at the Pine Ridge jail. From 1976 to 1977 I worked as a guard. From 1977 to 1981 the Oglala Sioux Tribe contracted the program there, I switched over from the Bureau of Indian Affairs, went to work for the Oglala Sioux Tribe where I served as the training officer and captain of police. From 1981 to 1983 I was a Special Agent with the Bureau of Indian Affairs on the Devil's Lake Sioux reservation in Fort Totten, North Dakota. From 1984 to 1986 as a Special Agent again on the Pine Ridge Reservation with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, stationed there. Then from 1986 to I think 1989 I was a Special Agent with the United States Forest Service on the Black Hills National Forest and the Nebraska National Forest. Then in JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 410
1990 I got out of law enforcement for a couple of years, I went back to work on the Pine Ridge Reservation at the Pine Ridge agency as administrative manager for two years. Then in 1994 during President Clinton's first administration I had the opportunity to be appointed as the first Indian United States Marshal in the history of the Marshals service. I served in that position for two years. 1996 I left that position, returned back to Pine Ridge, and served as agency superintendent for five years on Pine Ridge until taking this job as the, originally was the Director of the Office of Law Enforcement Services until about two months ago the Bureau of Indian Affairs went through a reorganization and changed the title to Deputy Director. Q. In terms of your current job, Mr. Ecoffey, do you supervise BIA law enforcement on reservations throughout the United States? A. Yes, I do. Q. Have you, yourself, personally been involved in homicide investigations over the years? A. Yes, I have. I have testified hundreds of times in Federal Court proceedings concerning homicide investigations throughout Indian country. Majority of those cases were on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Q. In particular did you become involved in an investigation into the death of Anna Mae Pictou-Aquash? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 411
Q. Can you tell us, sir, what your first involvement in that investigation was? A. My first involvement in the investigation actually began while I was stationed up in Devil's Lake, North Dakota. I got a call from the FBI and was asked for their assistance. They had picked up some information, or some leads, I led them down into the Denver area. I was asked by the FBI to come along and to assist in interviewing potential witnesses because of my expertise in dealing with Indian people and dealing in the area of homicide investigations. Q. At that time did that pan out at all? A. No, it didn't. Q. When did you next get involved in the investigation? A. Actually the information that really got me involved was in I believe in 1996, September. Look at my note here for a minute. Q. That's fine. A. My actual involvement was in 1993 when I really got involved in the case when information came forward when I was the administrative manager at the Pine Ridge Agency. Q. What type of information came forward at that time? A. Individual by the name of Gladys Bissonette came to me at the agency, I was friends with her, had been friends with her for a number of years. She was heavily involved with the JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 412
I worked with her on some issues there at the agency, and then I had asked her if she had any information pertaining to the murder of Anna Mae Aquash. At that point in time she provided me with the name of an individual that would likely cooperate with me and come forward and provide additional information. Q. Who was that individual? A. Al Gates. Q. Who is Al Gates? A. Al Gates is a elderly gentleman who lives in Denver, Colorado. He was a family relative of Gladys Bissonette. He came forward, it was actually on June 11 of 1993 when Gladys came forward with the information. Then on June 18 I had asked her, I said will Mr. Gates cooperate with me and provide information about Anna Mae's murder? And she said yeah, I think he will. That was on June 11, 1993. On June 18, 1993 he showed up at my office at the Pine Ridge Agency. Q. Let me interrupt you for a second. Without getting in to what he had to say to you at that time, did he give you information that moved you further along in this investigation? A. Yes, he did. Q. Before we get in to that, up to that time had you had an opportunity to review the evidence in the case and had you done so? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 413
Q. What types of evidence was there available to review? A. Basically after I got involved in the case when I was on the Devil's Lake Indian Reservation and I moved back down to Pine Ridge, it was around 1984, myself and my colleague Special Agent Mitch Pourier with the Bureau of Indian Affairs who also worked with me on the case for several years was reviewing the case at my residence in Pine Ridge, and we started to reconstruct the case to see if we could determine what happened to her. And at that point in time we started looking at the physical evidence that the agents and BIA criminal investigators left in the file. Q. Part of that evidence did you review the photographs? A. Yes, we did. (Exhibits 43-44 marked For identification.) BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Sir, I have handed you what has been marked as Exhibits number 43 and 44 and ask you if you are familiar with those two photographs? A. Yes, I am. Q. What are those photographs of? A. This photograph is a depiction of the crime scene of Anna Mae Aquash. It is a photograph of a bracelet that was on JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 414
Q. Are these actually blow ups of a portion of some of the photographs that were originally taken? A. Yes, they are. Q. Were those made from, if you know, from the Polaroids? A. Yes, these are made from the originals. MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, I offer Exhibits 43 and 44 at this time. MR. RENSCH: May I inquire for the purpose of making an objection. THE COURT: You may. MR. RENSCH: Have those pictures in any way been enhanced by color or anything like that, sir? A. No, they haven't. MR. RENSCH: So those are a blow up of a close up of the small Polaroid, is that right? A. That's correct. MR. RENSCH: No objection. THE COURT: Exhibits 43 and 44 are received. BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Sir, as you proceeded in this investigation at that time, were you familiar with the location where the shooting had taken place? A. Yes, I was. Q. How was it you became familiar with that? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 415
scene, Roger Amiotte came out to the scene and showed us where the body was. Q. Sir, I am going to ask you to look at Exhibit No. 43 which I have displayed on the screen there, do you see that? A. Yes, I do. Q. Can you tell us what you observed about that photograph when you looked at it? A. One of the things, and I think that it really points out on this photograph here, is what you can see is clear, ligature markings on the wrist. MR. RENSCH: I object, improper foundation for him to make that conclusion. THE COURT: Overruled. BY MR. MANDEL: Q. When you say ligature markings, what do you mean, sir? A. Where this individual was tied or bound. Right above the butterfly bracelet you can see clearly there is markings in a straight line inconsistent with the bracelet that was there that would indicate that she was tied up and that at the time of her death. Q. So you can draw on that screen just by touching it with your fingertip. Can you sort of put a circle around the area you are talking about? A. (Witness marks exhibit). JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
|