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A. Theda was that type of person. Q. How so? A. They didn't want me to go in the bedroom with them, they just took Dick. Q. I am talking how is she a pushy person? A. Just takes control of the situation. Q. About that time how old did she appear to be, thirties, forties, fifties? A. Probably forties, fifties. Close to fifty maybe. Q. She was older than the others that were with her? A. Right, much older. Q. Was there a phone at your residence in '75? A. Yes, we had a phone. Q. Did Ms. Pictou-Aquash ask to use your phone? A. No, she didn't. Q. If she would have asked, would you have let her? A. I think I would have. Q. So there was a period of time when you were out in your living room or kitchen area alone with Ms. Pictou-Aquash? A. Right. Q. About how long would you say that was? A. Probably five minutes maybe. Q. Cars outside the house? A. You know, I didn't look out. Q. Did you folks have a car then? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Did the people who came in give you any indication that they had walked? A. No, they didn't. Q. And no one was standing guard over Ms. Pictou-Aquash as she was with you? A. No, they weren't. Q. You never dreamed that when she left that house anything bad would happen to her, did you? A. No, I didn't, sir. Q. If you would have thought something bad was going to happen, would you have tried to help her? A. I think I would have. MR. RENSCH: Thank you. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL: Q. You said you weren't allowed to go back in the bedroom when they were there? A. Well, they said stay out here, they took Dick back there. Q. Do you know, did your husband Dick give them anything when they were back in that bedroom? A. I don't think he did. Q. Did he keep any guns in that bedroom? A. No. At the time he had, he had gotten in trouble and wasn't allowed to have any kind of guns. He was on release JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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MR. RENSCH: Okay -- well -- BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Had he had guns in the past? A. We had a rifle, hunting rifles, but he had taken everything over to his dad's, mother and dad's place. MR. MANDEL: Nothing further, Your Honor. MR. RENSCH: No questions. THE COURT: Thank you. You may step down. Now we will take our morning recess. Remember what I told you before, don't talk to each other about the case, keep an open mind until you have heard all of the evidence. We will be in recess for fifteen minutes. (Recess at 10:30 until 10:45). THE COURT: Call your next witness. MR. McMAHON: Richard Two Elk. RICHARD TWO ELK, called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and said as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McMAHON: Q. State your name, please? A. My name is Richard Two Elk. Q. Where do you live? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, tt305A
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Q. How long have you lived there? A. I have lived there off and on since about 1959. Q. How old are you? A. I am 49 years old. Q. Where were you born? A. I was born in Rapid City. Q. Where did you grow up? A. All over the country. Q. Did you spend any time on any of the reservations in South Dakota? A. Yes, I did. Q. During what years would that have been? A. From my birth to the present I have spent a lot of time on Pine Ridge. Q. Did you graduate from high school? A. No. Q. Did you spend any time in the military? A. Yes. Q. When were you in the military? A. I was in the military from 1983 to 1987. Q. What did you do prior to being in the military? A. Prior to being in the military I was a Native American educator and journalist. Q. What is your present occupation? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. What do you do as an educational consultant? A. I do presentations in public schools, I conduct medical training and orienteering. Q. Were you a member of AIM? A. I was a member of AIM. Q. During approximately what years were you a member of the AIM organization? A. From approximately 1970 to about 1975, '76. Q. Where were you living during those years? A. I lived in Denver and in Iowa. Q. Do you know Mr. Arlo Looking Cloud? A. Yes. Q. You see him here in the courtroom? A. Yes. Q. Could you identify him, please? A. He is sitting right over there in that chair. MR. McMAHON: May the record reflect he identified the defendant? THE COURT: It may. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. How do you know Mr. Looking Cloud? A. We grew up together. Q. What do you mean you grew up together, can you explain that? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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spent a lot of time hanging around and just raising cain together. Q. Did you have any kind of special relationship with each other? A. I think special in that Arlo's father and my mother had a friendship, and a result we ended up being closer than most. I considered my special relationship with Arlo because I, unlike other people, I didn't have any fear of him. Q. You are not a blood relative of his, though, are you? A. No, I am not. Q. During what years as far as your age were you and Arlo running around together? A. Probably from the early to mid teens. Q. Then how long did you continue to keep each other's company? A. To the present. Q. So you have known him for a long time? A. Yes. Q. Did you spend a lot of time together? A. Not an excessive amount of time. Enough to where we maintained our relationship over the years. Q. Have you spent time with him in Denver? A. Yes. Q. Was Mr. Looking Cloud involved in the AIM movement? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Would it have been at the same time you were? A. Yes. Q. Did you go to AIM activities together? A. Yes, we did. Q. Could you describe what type of involvement the two of you had? A. Well, if there was an activity going on that was sponsored by the American Indian Movement such as a demonstration or a rally, or other sort of event, we would often go there and provide support. We would be present. So mostly just support for different activities that AIM did. Q. Were you living in Denver during your AIM involvement years? A. I lived in Denver and in Iowa. Q. How about Mr. Looking Cloud, where was he living then? A. Denver and South Dakota and -- Q. Were the two of you active in any particular chapter of AIM? A. The Denver chapter. Q. Do you know a person by the name of John Graham? A. Yes. Q. How do you know him? A. He was a friend of both Arlo and I. Q. When was that? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. So for three years? A. Around about that, it may have been '75 and '76. Q. Was he a friend of yours while you were in Denver? A. Yes. Q. Was he also involved in AIM activities? A. Yes. Q. Did the three of you ever do anything together? A. Well, we partied together, we made chokers together and would go out and sell those. Q. What do you mean chokers? A. They hair pipe chokers and Indian crafts, if you will. So we would go and would sell those, and just stuff like that. Q. Did the three of you, yourself, Mr. Looking Cloud and Mr. John Graham, do these things together? A. Often. Q. Often? A. Not all the time, but often. Q. You said that would have been in '74, '75 and '76? A. I would have to say '75 and '76 to be certain. Q. '75 and '76. Did you, the three of you hang around together prior to December of 1975? A. Yes. Q. Did you continue to hang around together after December of 1975? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Have you ever had an occasion to talk with Mr. Looking Cloud about Anna Mae Aquash's murder? A. Yes, I have. Q. When was the first time you visited with him about that? A. The first time that I visited with Arlo about the murder of Anna Mae Aquash is when he called me from the federal holding in 1994. Q. You mean he was in jail? A. Yes. Q. And he called you from jail? A. Yes. Q. What did he say to you? A. He explained to me that he was being held in reference to the Anna Mae investigation. He wanted to know if I could help him, because I had a military background and I had a good sense of the institutional processes. So he asked me for advice and what I thought should be done. Q. What did you tell him? A. I asked him if he had, was responsible for killing Anna Mae? And he said no. And so then I told him that if he needed to, then he should tell them the truth about as much as he could about his involvement, and then maybe he would get out of jail. Q. Did he get out of jail? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Did the two of you have an occasion to visit about this again? A. Yes. Q. When would that have been? A. Well, we visited several times since he got out of jail to the present, since he was incarcerated last. Q. When would have the first have been after he got out of jail? A. I would say we didn't seriously start to explore the depths of it until mid to late 1990's, '96 and '97. Q. '96 and '97, somewhere in there? A. Yes, sir. Q. When was the last time you visited with Mr. Looking Cloud, about when this would have been? A. About two weeks prior to his arrest. Q. Let's start with your -- well, first of all, how many visits do you think you have had with him about this matter? A. I would say at least a half a dozen, if not more. Q. Let's start with the early visits. Tell me, if you would, what he told you about what happened to Anna Mae? MR. RENSCH: Objection, foundation. THE COURT: Sustained. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. When did you have this first visit then? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. Telephonic, or in person? Q. After that telephone visit? A. After he was released, when he was available, probably a year '95 I would say. Q. Who was present during this visit? A. Just Arlo and I. Q. Where did that visit take place? A. At his aunt's house. Q. Where is that? A. In Denver. Q. Just the two of you were present? A. Yes. Q. Did you ask him about what had happened to Anna Mae Aquash? A. Yes. I asked him about more of the particulars and the details of what I had been told initially. Q. Did the two of you then have a conversation about it? A. Yes. Q. Now at that time did you talk at all about him being at Yellow Wood's? A. Yes, I did. Q. What did he tell you about that? A. He told me was, that they were at Troy Lynn's when they received a call that said that they had to go to South Dakota. Q. You say they received a call, did he get any more JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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specific than that? A. No. Q. Did he say why they had to go to South Dakota? A. They had to go to South Dakota and take Anna Mae up there to respond to charges that she was an informer. Q. Did he tell you who was going to take her up there? A. He told me that he and John Boy and Theda were going to take her up there. Q. Did he tell you who made that telephone call? A. No. Q. Did he tell you where they went in South Dakota? A. Just to Rapid City. Q. Did he tell you what happened in Rapid City? A. What he told me was that in Rapid City they went to the interrogation, they were present for the interrogation, and they wanted to try to help Anna Mae respond to the charges effectively. Q. So he told you that he actually was trying to help Anna Mae respond to the charges? A. That was what he had told me, that was my understanding of it. Q. Was Mr. Graham helping also? MR. RENSCH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. BY MR. McMAHON: JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. I am sorry? Q. Was anyone else helping Anna Mae respond to the charges? A. No. Q. Did he tell you where they were at in Rapid City? A. No. Q. Did he mention where they went when they left Rapid City? A. What he told me was after they left Rapid City they went out looking for somewhere to go to, and they went to Rosebud and Pine Ridge, and that was the best that I knew, driving around. Q. Did he tell you who made that trip to Rosebud and Pine Ridge? A. He told me that there was he and John Boy. Q. Was Theda Clark with them? A. Not that he said. Q. Did he tell you what they did on Rosebud or Pine Ridge? A. What he told me was that they went to Pine Ridge and they had, they were trying to find somewhere to go, and they stopped to, just to stop, and that's when the rest of the events started to happen. Q. Did he tell you exactly where they had stopped? A. No. Q. What did he tell you happened when they stopped? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Let me stop you there a minute. You said they got out of the vehicle, who are you talking about? A. John Boy and Arlo and Anna Mae. Q. Go ahead then? A. That they had gotten out of the vehicle and they were going to go off the side of the road, and Arlo gave the gun to John Boy and nodded to him, and John Boy went off with Anna Mae. Q. You said that Arlo gave the gun to John Boy? A. That's what he told me. Q. When they were out at the site where Anna Mae was killed? A. Yes. Q. And then he told you what happened after that? A. What he told me was that he gave the gun to John Boy, and John Boy went off with Anna Mae, and that she had started to pray or to begin the process for prayer when John Boy just put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger. Q. You said you had a series of other conversations with Mr. Looking Cloud about this event, correct? A. Yes. Q. Where did you have those conversations? A. Different places. His aunt's house, my house, wherever we ran in to each other. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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the story to you again? A. I would have him review some of the particulars to measure them against what I had been told previously so that I could get a better sense of what I was being told, and so we did, we did visit the same story on several occasions. Q. Did he ever change any portion of his story? A. It would change often. Q. You think of any examples as to how it changed? MR. RENSCH: Objection, foundation. THE COURT: Overruled. A. The changes in the story would have to do with particulars of, say for example, trying to think of a particular one. Whether they went to Rosebud or not, as an example. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Did Mr. Looking Cloud ever claim to you that he didn't know this was going to happen? A. He also, he had told me that, yes. Q. Was that before or after he told you that he was the one that actually handed the gun to John Boy? A. It was, well, both before and after. And on one occasion he would tell me that he didn't know what was going to happen until it happened, on another occasion he would tell me otherwise. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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