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this from somebody who was there, and -- Q. Did you then ask him about the details of what took place? A. Yes. We asked him that we really didn't need to know all the details, but we needed to know how our mother died. Q. You recall what he told you about that? A. Yes, I do. He had told me that he had gotten a phone call and that he was instructed to go with Theda and John Boy to Denver to pick up my mother at Troy Lynn's house. Q. Let me interrupt you. He say he was the one who got the phone call? A. They had received a phone call. He didn't say exactly who got the phone call. And I asked him then at that point, I guess he was emotional, if he had been drinking that day, he said no. Then I asked him was my mother at Troy Lynn's house when he got there, and he said yes, she was there. And that when he got there they picked her up and took her to Rapid City the first day, and then the second day went to Rosebud, and from Rosebud went to a house, he stayed in the car with my mother, and Theda and John Boy went up to into the house. And we asked him at that point how our mother was in the car, if he had talked to her, and he said no, not really. He said no, not really, they didn't have a conversation. We were trying to find out what her demeanor was like for our own personal purposes. He then said that they came out of the house and JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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going to go out and do. He said there were people discussing and calling her informants, that Angie, Theda and John Boy had called her an FBI informant, and that they thought they were just taking her out to scare her. Then they took her out to a location, he didn't, he may have said, I can't remember the exact site. Q. Specifically did he say what happened when they got to that location? A. Yes, he did. He said that when they got there they all got out of the car and that he was instructed to stay at the car. Q. He meaning Arlo? A. Yes, he said I was told to stay with the car. That Theda and John Boy went up over the hill, and he heard a gun shot, and Theda and John Boy came back and my mother didn't, and they got in the car and drove away. Q. Did he tell you anything else about this incident? A. That was it. That, we thanked him for telling us, and we wished him well in his healing, and that was the end of the conversat ion. Q. So I understand this, and I am clear, what he told you was that he wasn't even present when she was shot? A. No. Q. And that Theda Clark and John Boy Patton did that? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. When your mother was murdered, how old were you? A. I would have been eleven approximately. Well, I didn't find out until just shortly before my eleventh birthday. I wasn't told right away. Q. How old was Debbie? A. She is fifteen months younger than me. MR. MANDEL: I have no further questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: Cross examination. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RENSCH: Q. My condolences, Ma'am. How long was the conversation? A. It wasn't terribly long. I couldn't put a time on it. Time stood still for me at that time. Q. Did Mr. Looking Cloud say that he was sorry? A. He said, his words to me were he felt bad, and he may have said sorry, but what I heard was that he felt badly about he hadn't called us in a long time. Q. He told you that he didn't know that they were going to kill her? A. That's correct. Q. When you mentioned that something about a phone call, at first you said he had gotten a phone call, and then you said he might have said they had gotten a phone call. A. Um-hum. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. I don't remember clearly, no. That there was a phone call that day was the impression he left on me. Q. So someone had made a phone call somewhere asking that your mother be taken someplace? A. That's correct. MR. RENSCH: Thank you, Ma'am, nothing further. THE COURT: Anything further? MR. MANDEL: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you, Ma'am, you may step down. MR. MANDEL: United States would call Candy Hamilton, Your Honor. CANDY HAMILTON, called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and said as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Could you state your name, please? A. Candy Hamilton. Q. Spelling on your last name? A. H-A-M-I-L-T-O-N. Q. Candy with a C, right? A. Yes. Q. Where do you reside? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Can you tell us what your current occupation is? A. Yes, I am a grant writer and coordinator for the Tiwahe Tipi, and that's a group of Tiospas that are organizing to do self help projects, and I teach for the Black Hills State University in the career learning center. Q. Are you a native South Dakotan? A. No. Q. Where are you from originally? A. Chattanooga, Tennessee. Q. When did you first come out to South Dakota? A. In October of 1973. Q. Could you tell us how it is that you came to come out to this area of the country? A. I had been active in some political movements around, I lived in Atlanta at the time, I had been involved there, and I was then a reporter, and a friend of mine who I had done reporting work with had been out here and during the siege at Wounded Knee. And when we were both back in Atlanta she asked me to come out and work with the media and help the committee and the Wounded Knee Defense-Offense Committee in that way, and she after many months finally talked me in to it. Q. Is Wounded Knee Offense-Defense Committee often referred to as WKLDOC? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. What was your intention when you came out here, what were you going to do for them? A. My intent originally was to put together a press packet for the committee, put together a list of media contacts, train somebody to do the media work, and leave after about six weeks. Q. Is that what happened? A. No. I got very interested in the whole situation, and in the people and the issues that were involved, and ended up staying with the Wounded Knee committee until '75, '74-75, and then after that I returned to work with the Oglala Legal Committee after the shoot-out at Jumping Bulls. Q. How long did you stay involved with WKLDOC? A. Well, I guess when we formed the Oglala Legal Committee it was sort of an adjunct of the Wounded Knee Committee. I was less active with them and more active with the people right there in Oglala than with the committee, but I was a part of it through '76. Q. You live in Oglala on Pine Ridge today? A. Yes. Q. Are you still actively involved in political causes down there? A. Well, with the people who are organizing there through the Tiospas, I work with them. Q. Are you familiar with an individual named Anna Mae JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us how you first came in contact with her? A. When I first went to Oglala after the shoot-out, she was, we lived across the road from each other. I was at the Weasel Bears, and she had a little trailer across the road at June Little and Wanda Sills house, and we visited back and forth frequently. Q. This would have been the end of 1973 about? A. No, that was after the shoot out in seven -- Q. Excuse me, '75? A. '75, yeah. Q. In terms of your involvement with WKLDOC at that time -- first of all, where was the WKLDOC office located? A. On Allen Street here in Rapid. Q. And is that still an existing structure today? A. Yes. (Exhibit 34-35 marked For identification.) BY MR. MANDEL: Q. I have handed you what are marked Exhibits number 34 and 35. I will ask you if you recognize what is in those photographs? A. Yes, that is the house that the Wounded Knee Legal JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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living space in '75. Q. These are current photographs, or more current than that? A. Yes. Q. Things look pretty much the same as they did back then? A. The back looks very much the same. The front appears somewhat different. Q. Did you have an opportunity to go in to that house recently? A. Yes, in the fall I went in and looked at it. Q. Was the interior the same? A. No, it was very different. There was a room as you walked in the front door, there used to be a room that was closed off to the left of the front door. And then kind of an open room. That had changed, there was no separate room there any more, and somebody had put in a fireplace that took up a great deal of space that was free when the committee was there. MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, I offer Exhibits 34 and 35 MR. RENSCH: No objection. THE COURT: Exhibits 34 and 35 are received. BY MR. MANDEL: Q. You mentioned that WKLDOC had the office up here in JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. I think at that time there might have still been a committee house in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and there was the AIM school and a house where a number of AIM people lived, and then we had the little house and office first at Weasel Bear's and then Jumping Bull's where the Oglala Legal Committee worked. Q. Was the Oglala Legal Committee part of WKLDOC, or how did that fit together? A. Some people thought so and some didn't. It was, I suppose in essence it was. Q. Did you work down in Oglala or up in Rapid City? A. When I first came back after the shoot-out I worked in Rapid City at a house, I think it was on Fairview right off Mount Rushmore, and did the media work there. Before I moved to Oglala. Q. Just so we know. Exhibit 34 I am showing now, that would be the front of the WKLDOC house? A. Yes. Q. Then Exhibit 35 that is now displayed, that would be the rear? A. That's the back of the same house. Q. Going back to 34, looking at it on the screen there, if I can get it straight, keep myself out of there. Drawing a circle around a window on the front, do you see that? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. And is that where that little room was located that you are talking about? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember a time in December of 1975 when you were present at the WKLDOC house? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us how that came about? A. I came up to Rapid City with Jeanette Eagle Hawk and Charlie Long Soldier, because for one reason the next day I was to catch a ride to go to Sioux Falls to testify at Russell Means' Sioux Falls trial. And also I was to meet a friend who I had worked with at the Wounded Knee Committee earlier who no longer was, well, she didn't work in Rapid City, and she was going to be in town, and so I came up to see her the night before and catch my ride to Sioux Falls the next day. Q. You were going to testify the day after that? A. The day after I arrived, yeah. Well, I testified, we came up one day, we left the next day, the next day I testified. Q. Came up on Wednesday, December 10th? A. Probably, yeah. Q. And then Thursday you were in Rapid City? A. Thursday I was in Rapid, Thursday night we left and got to Sioux Falls late Thursday night, and I testified on the JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Was there anything in particular going on on that Thursday that helped you pin down the date when this happened? A. It was during the trial for Dick Wilson from the time he and some of his supporters had beaten up some of the workers for the Wounded Knee Committee, and they were on trial at that time, that's why Kathy was in town. Q. How did you travel from Oglala to Rapid City on Wednesday? A. In the committee car with Jeanette Eagle Hawk and Charlie Long Soldier. Q. When, do you remember when you arrived in Rapid City? A. We got here that night, and we probably went by the committee house, but then I went on to an apartment where Thelma Rios and her mother lived, because that's where Kathy was waiting for me. Q. Where was that located? A. It was an apartment, I think that is Maple Street very close to where the Mall is now. They used to be called the alphabet apartments because they had big letters on them. (Exhibit 38 marked For identification.) Q. I placed Exhibit 38 down there next to you which is an overhead photograph of Rapid City. I will ask you to look at JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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photograph? A. It will take a minute to get my bearings. I think it must be these down in the corner. Q. The upper right-hand corner? A. Yes. MR. MANDEL: I offer Exhibit 38 at this time. MR. RENSCH: No objection. THE COURT: Exhibit 38 is received. BY MR. MANDEL: Q. When you arrived at -- was this Thelma's apartment, or her mother's apartment? A. I think it was her mother's apartment, and Thelma was in the process of moving in to live with her mother. Q. Thelma also have an apartment of her own? A. She had had a house over on Milwaukee, and she may have later had her own apartment, but I don't think she had her own apartment then. I don't know, I just saw her at her mother's. Q. What time in the evening was it when you arrived at the apartment? A. Oh, I would say maybe early evening, maybe some time between 6:30 and 8:00. Q. When you arrived who was present? A. You know, I remember being there and I remember sitting at the table visiting with Thelma and Kathy, but I don't have JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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when I arrived. Q. Did anybody else arrive at the apartment after you got there that evening? A. Yes, much later in the evening when Thelma and Kathy and I were sitting there visiting Dave Hill came in. Q. Who is Dave Hill? A. He had formerly been, he and Thelma had formerly been together as a couple, and he had, he was an active member of AIM. Q. What happened when Dave Hill arrived, if you recall? A. He just walked in, and we all said hello, and shortly after that he sat down, and shortly after that Kathy and I went upstairs. Q. Did you go to bed then? A. Yes. Q. What happened then the next morning? A. The next morning before we had gotten up, very early, I heard somebody come in downstairs, and I heard Bruce Ellison's voice saying -- MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Well, you see Bruce Ellison that morning? A. Later that morning I did. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. No, but I recognized his voice. Q. You heard him speak? A. Yes. Q. After he spoke, can you tell me what took place? A. Well, I didn't leave my room, but shortly after that I heard people leave downstairs. Q. You know who left? A. Well, Thelma wasn't there when I got up, so I assume she left with Bruce. Q. About what time in the morning did you get up? A. Probably about 8:00 or 8:30. Q. Did you head over to the WKLDOC house at some point? A. Yes, Charlie and Jeanette picked me up and took me over there. Q. When you arrived there -- first of all, about what time of day was that? A. It was probably late morning, maybe ten, ten or eleven o'clock. Q. What was your purpose in going over there? A. I was to wait there for my ride to Sioux Falls, and I had understood that it would be late in the morning or early in the afternoon when we would leave. Q. When you arrived at the WKLDOC house who was present there that you saw initially? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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legal worker there that we all called Red, I think maybe his first name was Norman, I don't remember his last name, and Wesley Hollander were the people that I saw first. Q. Over the course of the day did you see some other individuals there? A. Yes, I did. I saw Anna Mae, I also saw in the course of the day Laurelie Means, Ted Means, Clyde Bellecourt, Madonna Gilbert, Thelma. I think that was all. Q. What did you observe taking place on that day? A. Well, all of them were in that front room that we identified earlier, and I would hear voices occasionally, but no distinct words, but they were all in there most of the day. I didn't go in there, but I saw all of them in that area when we were leaving later that night. Q. So who all, which of these people were actually in that front room during the course of the day? A. I don't know, because I never went in there. Q. Well, did you ever see people come out of there? A. When I came downstairs and we were getting ready to leave they all came out of that area. Q. All meaning? A. All the people I named. Q. Did you at some point in the day see Anna Mae Aquash? A. I did. I was upstairs probably most of the day, and JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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