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THE WITNESS: I don't know if he was there. I know he was in the house, but I don't know if he was specifically in the room. THE COURT: Well, I mean that's the rest of what you didn't establish with your question. They, I mean Mr. Looking Cloud was at the meeting, but what about that? MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, that is something that is going to go to the weight of the evidence. That doesn't go to the admissibility of this piece of evidence. Counsel is entitled to argue that he was present in the house, we can discuss the size of the house, it was a very small house, this statement was made, shortly thereafter the victim is tied up and taken out of the house. You know, the jury can process that evidence how they want, but that has nothing to do with the issue of the admissibility of that, that only goes to the weight, Your Honor. THE COURT: I thought she was down in the basement, I didn't think she was taken out of the house. MR. MANDEL: She was taken out of the house subsequent to this. THE COURT: I wanted to make sure I wasn't remembering it wrong. You said she was taken out of the house, I thought when this discussion went on the evidence in front of the jury was the discussion was in the kitchen upstairs and Anna Mae Aquash was down in the basement when JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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MR. MANDEL: Right. THE COURT: Alright. MR. RENSCH; Can I say something, Your Honor? THE COURT: Certainly. MR. RENSCH: If there is doubt about whether or not he was there when that statement was said, and if this all goes to just weight and not admissibility, that statement that is attributed to a person who doesn't come in here to Court is going to be thrown all over in front of this jury, and while I believe and I hope that juries can look through that and listen to the evidence and do what they are supposed to do, this is so capable of being turned in to something very, very prejudicial that hurts my client's fair trial rights. If they wanted that statement that bad, there would be other ways they can bring the declarant in, there are things that can be done. And if we are not sure that Arlo was in the room when that statement was being said, it couldn't serve a greater injustice than to have that be used against him in this case, and I would ask it be excluded. THE COURT: Sustained as to that as well as foundation with regard to the movement by one of the Mexican movement members across his throat indicating slicing somebody's throat. Even though it is an act and not a verbal or written statement, none-the-less it can fall under the JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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foundation in that it has not been established that at the time of the drawing of the finger across the throat that Mr. Looking Cloud was in the kitchen. So bring the jury back in, you can continue then with your examination. Please stand for the jury. (Jury Returns). THE COURT: You may continue. MR. MANDEL: Thank you, Your Honor. BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Now this meeting that was taking place, where in the house did you say it was occurring? A. In the kitchen. Q. Was this house on more than one level? A. Yes, has a basement, had a basement. Q. Just a basement and a main floor? A. Yes. Q. The kitchen I take it was on the main floor? A. Yes. Q. How big a house was it? A. I think it was a three bedroom. Q. Was the basement finished? A. No. Q. During this meeting that was taking place, do you know where Anna Mae Aquash was? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Was there anybody down there with her? A. I don't know. I think -- I don't know. Q. Was some decision made at this meeting? A. I think to take her back to Rapid City. Q. Do you know who expressed that that was going to be done? A. No, I don't remember. Q. Did somebody then do something toward taking her back to Rapid City? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us what happened? A. They brought her upstairs and took her out the door. Q. First of all, who brought her upstairs? A. I don't remember who brought her up. Q. You don't recall who brought her up? A. No. MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, I ask that I be allowed to approach the witness and show her her grand jury testimony to see if that would refresh her recollection. THE COURT: You may. (Shows Grand Jury Testimony to Witness). BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Ms. Janis, did you testify at the grand jury almost ten years ago in this matter? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Did you just have an opportunity to look at some of your grand jury testimony from that date? A. Yes. Q. Does looking at that refresh your recollection as to what took place on that date? A. Yes. Theda, John Boy and Arlo, they took her out of the house, but I didn't see them when they left. I didn't see them actually put her in the car and leave. Q. Who brought her out of the basement? A. I think Theda and John Boy and Arlo. Q. And what was her condition when she was taken from the basement? A. She was tied up. Q. How was she tied up? A. I think her wrists were tied, and they had her on like a board or something, her hands were tied to the board. Q. Do you recall -- A. They carried her out. Q. They carried her out? A. Yes. Q. How long had Arlo been there at the house before this happened? A. You mean as far as hours or days? Q. Right, hours. On that day when you came there, was he JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. I think he was. I am not, I don't know for sure. Q. How long were you there before this happened that she was taken out? A. A couple hours maybe. Q. What did you think was happening to her at that time? A. I just don't know, I just thought they were taking her back to Rapid to question her. You know, nothing bad would happen to her I thought. You know, I didn't think anything bad was going to happen. Q. In spite of the fact that she was carried out of there tied up? A. Yes, because there were other informants before her and nothing ever happened to them. John Durham. Q. Now did you see whose vehicle they left in? A. No, I didn't see. Q. Do you know what kind of vehicle Theda Clark had at that time? A. She had a little red Pinto station wagon. Q. Did you go outside of the house after Anna Mae was removed? A. No. Q. Did you stay in the house for some time after that? A. Yes. Q. How long? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Did anybody attempt to call law enforcement after this happened? A. No. Q. Specifically did Troy Lynn Irving ever try to call the police? A. No. Q. Did you ever interfere with somebody trying to contact law enforcement? A. No. Q. After the removal from the house, how long did you stay there? A. About an hour, I think. I don't remember how long I stayed there for sure. Q. Was there any discussion at that time about what had taken place? A. I know Troy Lynn called her mom, and I think her mom came. Q. Was she upset? A. Yes. Q. What about you? A. Yes. Q. Were you concerned? A. Yes. Q. Now you were living with John Boy at that time. How JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. I don't remember how long he was gone for. Q. Well, was it, can you tell us if it was more than a day? A. Yes, it was more than a day. Q. Would it have been a few days? A. I think so. Q. When he came back, did he have any discussions with you about this? A. No. Q. Did you at some point find out that Anna Mae Aquash had been murdered? A. Yes. Q. When was that? A. I don't remember when I found out. Q. Would it have been close in time to this, within a few months? A. Well, I don't know. I don't remember. Q. Well, did you think her death was connected to when she was taken away from the house there in Denver? MR. RENSCH: Objection, relevance, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Can you repeat that? BY MR. MANDEL: Q. I am asking if you thought her murder was connected to that day you saw her taken away from the house there in JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. Yes. Q. Did you ever discuss that with anyone? A. No. Q. Nobody at all? A. I think I might have talked to Troy Lynn. Q. Did you ever think of going to law enforcement about it? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you do so? A. No. Q. Why not? A. Scared. Q. Are you scared as you sit here today talking about it? A. Yeah. MR. MANDEL: No further questions, Your Honor. THE COURT: Cross exam. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RENSCH: Q. Afternoon, Ma'am. A. Hello. Q. Just so everybody is clear, you don't know for sure if Arlo was present during this meeting, do you? A. No. Q. It could have been that he was down in the basement, isn't that true? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. Yes. Q. When you say she was carried out of the house, are you saying she was carried out on a board? A. I think she was carried out like a board like this and her hands were tied, I think. Q. Are you absolutely sure about that? A. I know she was carried out. Q. Were any of her feet touching the ground as she went out? A. I am not sure. Q. Could she have walked out? A. No, I don't think so. Q. You don't know who tied her up, do you, Ma'am? A. No. Q. And you never saw how she was put in the vehicle, did you, Ma'am? A. No. Q. Now you have testified before at a grand jury about this, haven't you? A. Yes. Q. You never said anything to the other grand jury about her being tied up to a board, did you? A. I don't remember. Q. Well, as you looked at the grand jury testimony, did you JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. No. Q. You have spoken with Mr. Robert Ecoffey several times about this, haven't you? A. Yes. Q. You know Robert Ecoffey, don't you? A. Yes. Q. He is a relative, isn't he? A. No. Q. Is he a relative of your present husband's? A. Yes. Q. How so? A. I am not sure how they are related. Q. How long have you been married to your present husband? A. Fifteen years. Q. When you spoke with Robert Ecoffey in 1993, you didn't mention Arlo Looking Cloud, did you? A. I don't remember. Q. If Robert Ecoffey had a report indicating that he spoke to you and it didn't make reference to Arlo Looking Cloud, do you remember separately talking to him about Arlo Looking Cloud in 1993? A. No, I don't remember. Q. And you also spoke with Mr. Ecoffey in June of 1994, die you not? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. You have spoken to him a number of times, haven't you? A. Yes. Q. You didn't tell him anything about Ms. Pictou-Aquash being tied to a board, did you? A. I don' t know. Q. And when you spoke to him in July of 1994, you didn't say anything to him about Ms. Pictou-Aquash being tied to a board, did you? A. I don't know. Q. What color was the board? A. I don't know. Q. What color was the rope? A. I don't know. Q. Did you see the rope? A. I -- no, I don't think so. Q. Did you see her hands? A. I think I did. Q. But you don't remember for sure, do you? A. No, been a long time. Q. A lot of years have passed since that day? A. Yes. Q. Was that day a crossroads in your life? A. Yes. Q. Your life changed after that day? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Were you an enemy of Ms. Pictou-Aquash in December of 1975? A. No. Q. You consider her a friend? A. I did. Q. You liked her, and when she left that day you didn't think that anything bad was going to happen to her other than just some questioning, did you? A. No, I didn't. Q. If you would have thought that something terrible was going to happen to her, would you have done something about it do you think? A. Yes. Q. Like call the police and tried to help her? A. Yes. Q. And you didn't call the police and try to help her, did you? A. No. Q. Have you felt bad because you didn't do something to try to help? A. Yes. Q. If in 1975 you are an American Indian in the American Indian Movement, did it serve a purpose to snoop around, ask questions? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Were there times when you saw other things that you just thought, hey, I better just not say anything, and let this thing run its course and maybe it will be alright? A. No. Q. Did you feel like you just really didn't have any choice, you just had to be quiet about it back then? A. Yes. MR. RENSCH: Nothing further, thank you. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL: Q. Was it clear to you that Ms. Aquash was being taken against her will? A. Yes. Q. And three people you have mentioned, Arlo, John Boy and Theda, were going that? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever in the time that you belonged to AIM tie somebody up and abduct them? A. No. Q. Would you have done something like that? A. No. Q. Why not? A. I have no reason to do that. Q. Did you believe there was any reason to do that to Anna Mae Aquash? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Is the reason that you didn't call the police because you didn't think that something was going to happen, or because you were simply afraid? A. I didn't think anything was going to happen. Q. In spite of what you saw? A. Yes. MR. MANDEL: Nothing further. Your Honor. MR. RENSCH: Nothing further, thank you. THE COURT: Thank you, you may step down. Call your next witness. MR. McMAHON: Troy Lynn Yellow Wood. TROY LYNN YELLOW WOOD, called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and said as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Would you state your name, please? A. Troy Lynn Yellow Wood. Q. Where do you live? A. Denver, Colorado. Q. How long have you lived there? A. More than thirty years. Q. What was the address that you lived in in November and JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 40Q South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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