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record, you know, that's up to you. I thank you for the information, but that is all there is to it. MR. RENSCH: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Alright, bring in the jury, please. (Jury Enters) THE COURT: You may proceed. BY MR. RENSCH: Q. Ms. Nichols, as of September of last year isn't it true that you had received approximately $24,000 in moneys or services from the government in this case? A. Yes. Q. And you have also been told that living expenses for you will be paid for a period of time into the future, is that not so? A. No. Q. How much money have you received so far in the year 2004 from the federal government in connection with your cooperation in this case? A. $25,000. Q. This year you have, the year 2004? A. 2004, yes. Q. How did you receive that, was it by way of a check? A. It was in my bank. Q. Is $25,000 a lot of money to you? A. No. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. Because in the business I work in I can make that kind of money in a couple of months. Q. How long does it take you to make $25,000? A. Well, when I worked on a big budget movie if my salary is $2,200 a week, then it takes a couple of months. Q. Last year, for example, were you employed the entire time? A. No. Q. How many movies did you work on last year? A. Two. Q. How much did you make on each one? A. Total, they pay you per contract, it was only $9,000. There that was for PBS. Q. Was that for each movie you worked on, or was that total what you made? A. That was total. Q. So if it takes you a year to make $9,000, it seems to me that $25,000 would be quite a lot of money, would you agree? A. No. Q. Do you value having $25,000? A. Well, it covers expenses to where I needed to move to. Q. Have you taken any steps to write a book or anything like that? A. No. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phil lips Avenue, #305A
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A. No. Q. Have you contacted somebody to possibly be your agent in the future? A. No. Q. Do you have plans to write a book? A. No. Q. Do you have plans to sell your story? A. No. Q. Could plans change at some point in the future do you think? A. No. MR. McMAHON: I object, speculation. THE COURT: I will let the answer stand. Ask your next question, overruled. BY MR. RENSCH: Q. How many children do you have, Ma'am? A. Four. Q. These are children you had with Mr. Dennis Banks? A. Yes. Q. How old are they? A. 19, 23, 28 and 29. Q. And you were with Mr. Banks from what, 1972 to about 1989? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. Initially. Q. How long did you live with him without loving him? A. About three years. Q. So you loved him until about 1986? A. Yes. Q. Do you have a criminal record of any sort? A. At the moment I can apply for a job and put no. Q. Have you ever been convicted of a felony? A. Yes. Q. How many times? A. Once. Q. How long ago? A. In 1976 or '77. Q. Is that something that you, does that arise out of some of these acts you testified to on direct? A. Yes. Q. Which one of them? A. From when our car blew up in Kansas I was charged with possession of firearms. I was on probation for three years. Q. Were you charged in Federal Court or in State Court? A. I think federal. Q. Has anybody talked to you about helping you get that off of your record in connection with this case? A. You mean the charges from back in 1976? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. It was already removed from my record when I completed the probation. I was under 23 and they told me then the law says that when you complete your probation without any violations your record is expunged? Q. And you were good friends with Ms. Pictou-Aquash, weren't you? A. Yes. Q. The best of friends? A. She was a very good friend of mine. Q. You have told people that she was your best friend in the past, have you not? A. She was when she lived with me. Q. What year was it that she lived with you? A. In 1974. Q. 1974. Okay. In 1974 you loved your husband Dennis Banks, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. Now what year did you learn then that Ms. Pictou-Aquash was having a sexual relationship with your husband? A. In 1975. Q. What month? A. June. Q. That would have been approximately the time of the Farmington, New Mexico matter, is that right? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. You were angry with Ms. Pictou-Aquash, weren't you? A. When I learned about it I was. Q. That hurt you when you found out that your best friend would have sex with your husband, didn't it? A. Yes. Q. Is it funny? A. No. I mean it would hurt anybody I think, so it didn't just hurt me. Q. Were you angry at your husband for that too? A. Yes. Q. As you went on through your relationship with Mr. Banks and you continued being married to him, did this situation with Ms. Pictou-Aquash still bother you? A. At different times. Q. The fact that she was with your husband? A. Yes. Q. In fact, it bothered you up to 1986, didn't it? A. No, probably not that long. Q. Do you hate your husband, your ex-husband Dennis Banks? A. No. Q. Do you want to hurt him? A. No. He is just the father of my children. Q. You would never want to do anything that would hurt the father of your children? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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is the father of my children. Q. Of course if were you to hurt him, that would hurt your children, would you agree? A. Pretty much. Q. So you wouldn't want to do anything to hurt him because it could hurt your kids? A. My children are, have been my life since I have had them. Q. Is there a part of you that wants to use Ms. Pictou-Aquash to hurt your husband? A. No. Q. The way that he hurt you? A. No. Q. By using her? A. No. Q. You went into your husband's house wearing a wire and questioned him about these matters, didn't you? A. We never discussed Anna Mae. Q. You went into his house wearing a wire to record what he said, didn't you? A. Nothing about Anna Mae. Q. Did you wear a wire to record what he said? A. Yes. Q. When did you do that? JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. Now back when you were with Dennis Banks in the early seventies, let's start with 1972, that was a volatile time for the American Indian Movement, wasn't it? A. Yes. Q. You saw many things that were crimes, didn't you? A. In 1972? Q. The early seventies? A. No. Q. How about 1975, did you witness any crimes in 1975? A. Just that I traveled with them and we were fugitives. Q. You told the jury that you were present when some bombs were placed by the power plant in Pine Ridge? A. Yes. Q. We can agree that's probably a crime? A. Yes. Q. You were present when people were making Ms. Pictou-Aquash make bombs, weren't you? A. Yes. Q. You helped make bombs, didn't you? A. No. Q. You never touched them? A. I never touched those bombs. Q. You never touched any bombs? A. I touched a piece of dynamite that was not attached to a JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. What were you doing that for? A. Because Leonard was teaching us how to make the bombs. Q. When you were in the American Indian Movement and when you saw these things, you didn't go to the police and tell anyone about them, did you? A. No. Q. Why not? A. Well, at the time I was committed to the Movement, and I believed in what the movement stood for at the moment. Q. What happens if you disagreed with what was going on, could you keep quiet about things? A. What happens if I disagreed right then? Q. Yes. A. I never talked to anybody about anything. Q. So in the American Indian Movement in 1975 when you would see something that was illegal or that you didn't agree with, you would keep quiet, wouldn't you? A. Yes. Q. Because you can't always know how people are going to react if you say something, isn't that true? A. I just didn't talk about it, didn't think about what people were going to react to. Q. It could be dangerous if you would have tried to step in and change things as they were occurring for you back then, JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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A. I never thought about stepping in to change anything back then. Q. In the motor home incident up in Oregon, is it your testimony to this jury that Ms. Aquash was basically being held captive that whole time? A. She, when she traveled to the store she was always with somebody, if she went shopping she was with somebody. She was never alone. Q. Well, were you with her when she was away? A. I never traveled with her to the store. Q. So if you were not with her when she was away, how do you know whether or not she was left alone? A. Because my sister was with her. Q. And was your sister sent to be along with her to keep an eye on her? A. My sister and Leonard traveled with her to the store. Q. What is your sister's name? A. Bernie Nichols. Q. Did you ever have to watch Anna Mae during this time? A. No. Q. You never had to keep an eye on her at all? A. No. Q. And it is your position before this jury that she wanted to get away and no one would let her go, is that right? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, tt305A
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her she couldn't. Q. Well, were you there when she said that? A. No. Q. So you don't know for sure if she said that, do you? A. My sister told me. Q. But your sister was one of the people who was watching her, wasn't she? A. My sister was traveling with her. They never directly said to my sister we are going to go to the store and you keep an eye on her. Q. No one ever directly said to you that someone was to keep on eye on Ms. Pictou-Aquash, isn't that true? A. No, it was never said to me. Q. And you never heard anyone other than your sister recount possibly what Ms. Pictou said other than her, you never heard anyone tell another person to make sure to keep an eye on Ms. Pictou-Aquash, did you? A. Not in Washington. Q. Okay. Did you at any point out there on the West Coast hear anybody say that they should keep an eye on Ms. Pictou-Aquash? A. No, they just did. She was never alone. Q. No one told you that they were keeping an eye on Ms. Pictou-Aquash for any reason, did they? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. So when you tell this jury they were keeping an eye on her so that she couldn't leave, you are making an assumption, aren't you? A. If that is what I believe, I believe that that is what was going on. Q. You are telling us what you believe, right? A. Yes. Q. But you are not telling us that you observed that, are you? A. I never observed that. Q. As you were watching what happened out there as you are with these fugitives, and you yourself were a fugitive, weren't you? A. When I was in Washington state? Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Okay, meaning you missed a court appearance? A. Right. Q. You were on the federal firearms charges, or explosives charges? A. Right. Q. So at this time you were a fugitive. During that period of time did you believe then that she was being held captive? A. I believed that she would not have been, if Dennis and JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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Q. I appreciate that's what you believe, but my question to you is did you believe that she was being held captive as you were with her out there and you were all in the motor home? A. She was never tied up or anything in that capacity of being captive. Q. Did you believe that she was being held prisoner, or her freedom of movement was being restricted as you were with her during that time period? A. I think if she wanted to leave there would have been an incident. Q. Were there any instructions given to anybody in your presence about what would happen if she tried to leave? A. No. Q. Did you ever see her try to leave? A. No. Q. Did you ever see her make any phone calls asking someone to come and pick her up? A. No. Q. Did she ever ask you for help in trying to leave? A. No. Q. During this period of time were you her friend? A. Yes. Q. But during this period of time you thought she wouldn't have been able to leave if she wanted to, correct? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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up. Q. With all that in mind, you also tell this jury that your husband at that time felt she was an informant, is that true? A. I believe that. Q. And you have also told this jury that Leonard Peltier felt that she was an informant, isn't that true? A. Yes. Q. And these are dangerous people, aren't they. Banks and Peltier? A. Once Leonard made the disclosure, then, yeah, I realized what he had done, then, yeah, you could say he was a dangerous person. Q. And if he thought that somebody was not with him, is it your testimony to this jury that they could be in danger? A. If they were not with him? Q. Yeah, if they were an informant against him? A. Yeah. Q. So as he said that, did you think that Ms. Pictou-Aquash was in danger from him while you were all in the motor home together? A. I realized she was scared once we left. Q. Did you do anything to help Ms. Pictou-Aquash in her predicament in the motor home? A. We were living in the motor home. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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could leave? A. No. Q. Why not? A. She never asked to leave. Q. Did you do anything prior to the time that you found out that she was dead to help her in any way in light of the fact that people thought she was an informant? A. No. Q. Why not? A. Because I didn't know who did this to her. Q. But you have told us that as you were married to him you had an idea that your husband did this to her? A. I assumed that he knew who did this to her. Q. And you assumed that when he told you that a body had been found on February 24, isn't that correct? A. He told me it was Anna Mae that had been found on February 24. Q. It was at that point you put the two and two together, is that right? A. That's when I started thinking about it. Q. At that point did you do anything at all to alert anybody about your suspicions? A. No. Q. Is part of that because when you are in the American JERRY J. MAY, RPR. CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
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