PAGES 116 to 130
PAGE 116
Q. When was it that you traveled to Rapid City to join Mr. Banks? A. In January of 1973. Q. Where did the two of you go after that? A. Well, we lived here, and then they were having the hearings and we lived in Rapid City, and February 6 was the Custer riot. Q. February 6 you said was the Custer riot, what do you mean by that? A. Well, there were several hundred people in Custer protesting the death of Wesley Bad Heart Bull. Q. Was Dennis Banks arrested as a result of that? A. Eventually. Q. Were you down there at Custer also? A. Yes. Q. Other members of AIM down there? A. Yes. Q. What happened of any significance after the Custer incident? MR. RENSCH: Objection, relevance, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. A. After Custer was Wounded Knee. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. What do you mean by Wounded Knee? A. We went to Wounded Knee, there were several hundred JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 117
Q. It started February 27? A. Yes. Q. Was that an occupation of Wounded Knee that you are talking about? A. Yes. Q. Was it an armed occupation? MR. RENSCH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Were you at Wounded Knee? A. Yes. Q. Were there weapons present? A. Yes. Q. How long did the occupation last? A. Seventy-one days. Q. Were you there the whole time? A. I was there until April 27, my uncle Buddy LaMonte, he was my mom's brother, and he got killed. Q. At Wounded Knee? A. Yes. Q. Did you leave then? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever go back? A. We went back approximately a week and a half later JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 118
Q. Do you know someone by the name of Anna Mae Aquash? A. Yes. Q. When did you first meet her? A. I met her when she came to Wounded Knee with her husband Nogeeshik. (Exhibit 14 marked For identification.) BY MR. McMAHON: Q. I have laid in front of you what has been marked I think Exhibit 14, would you look on the back of that for me, please? A. Yes, this is 14. Q. You recognize that? A. Yes. Q. What is it? A. It is a picture of Anna Mae. Q. Anna Mae Aquash? A. Yes. Q. Is that what she looked like when you met her at Wounded Knee in 1973? A. Yes, it is. MR. McMAHON: Offer Exhibit 14, Your Honor. MR. RENSCH: No objection. THE COURT: Exhibit 14 is received. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 119
Q. What did you do after the events at Wounded Knee ended? A. We left Wounded Knee, Dennis and I went to Salt Lake City, Utah. Q. Why did you go to Salt Lake City? A. Because Dennis was hiding from the FBI. Q. We have got the picture up of Anna Mae. Where was she from? A. Nova Scotia. Q. Was she a member of a particular tribe? A. Mik'maq. Q. Did she have any children? A. Yes. Q. How many? A. Two. Q. Were they daughters or sons? A. Two girls. Q. Did you ever meet them? A. No, not during that time I never met them. Q. You know how old they were? A. They were approximately eight and ten. Q. Let's get back to your trip to Salt Lake City. Had Dennis Banks been charged with any criminal offenses as a result of Wounded Knee? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 120
A. Yes. Q. How long did you stay in Utah? A. We were there for a couple of months. Q. Did Mr. Banks eventually go to trial on those charges? A. Yes. Q. And where did that take place? A. In St. Paul, Minnesota. Q. How long did that trial last? A. From January of 1974 through August. Q. Of 1974? A. Yes. Q. I am going to jump ahead a little bit. Well, before I do, did you stay up in St. Paul for the whole trial with him? A. Yes. Q. Was Anna Mae Aquash ever there? A. Yes. Q. How much of the time was she there? A. She lived in that area. Q. And between the time that you first met her at Wounded Knee in 1973, and then through that trial, did you see her off and on at different AIM functions? A. Yes. Q. Did you and she become friends? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 121
A. Okay. Q. Did you attend a national AIM convention anywhere at that time? A. Yes. Q. Where was it at? A. In Farmington, New Mexico. Q. Approximately how many people attended that? A. Maybe three hundred. Q. Was Mr. Banks with you? A. Yes. Q. Was Anna Mae there? A. Pardon? Q. Was Anna Mae there? A. Yes. Q. Were there other leaders of the AIM movement there? A. Yes. Q. Who were some of those people that were there? A. Clyde Bellecourt, Vernon Bellecourt, Larry Anderson, Leonard Peltier. Q. What was the purpose of having this get-together? A. It was a AIM convention that had been organized. Q. Was that something that was done yearly? A. Pretty much, it was in different locations. Q. Were there different AIM chapters around the country? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 122
Q. Was this the type of gathering that was used for members of the different chapters to get together? A. Yes. Q. You mentioned that Anna Mae Aquash was there. Were there any rumors going about, going around about her at that point in time? MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. Simply asking if there were rumors. Overruled, go ahead. A. Yes. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Was it being discussed openly, these rumors? A. Yes. Q. What were the rumors that were going around? MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay. THE COURT: The requested testimony is hearsay, but I am going to admit it for a limited purpose only, this is a limiting instruction. It isn't admitted nor received for the truth of the matter stated. In other words, whether the rumor is true or not. It is simply received as to what the rumor was. So it is limited to what the rumor was, it is not admitted for the truth of the statement as to whether the rumor was true or not. So with that limiting instruction, which in part grants the objection, but the objection beyond JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 123
MR. RENSCH: I would also like if I could to object on the grounds of 403 as well. And relevance. THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. Go ahead and answer the question, Ms. Nichols, as to what the rumors were? A. Yes. Q. What were those rumors? A. That she was an informant. Q. What was her demeanor in Farmington, New Mexico? A. She was upset. She was very quiet. Q. Did she act frightened? A. Yes. Q. Was she ever confronted with these allegations that she was an informant? A. Yes. Q. Who confronted her? A. Leonard Peltier. Q. What happened? MR. RENSCH: Objection, personal knowledge, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained as to foundation. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Did the confrontation you were going to talk about occur JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 124
A. Yes. Q. You were there? A. Yes. Q. Were people talking about the confrontation after it occurred? A. Yes. MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Was it being openly discussed by everyone? A. Yes. Q. Was it common knowledge among all the people down there? MR. RENSCH: Objection, leading and argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained as to form. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Did you hear the discussions about what had happened? A. Yes. Q. What did you hear? MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay, relevance, 403. Also confrontation clause. THE COURT: The objection is sustained in part, overruled in part. Once again what this witness heard is admitted not for the truth of the matter stated, but simply for the fact of whatever was being stated. And so that's a JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 125
is hearsay, but it is admissible for a limited purpose only. Overruled to that extent. You may proceed. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. You may answer the question. Do you remember what it was? It was what did you hear that took place in the confrontation? A. I heard that he had taken her away from the camp in a car and had put a gun to her head, and that he wanted to know if she was an informant. Q. Did you hear what her response was? A. Yes. MR. RENSCH: Same series of objections, and may I have a continuing objection along these lines, Your Honor? THE COURT: Yes. Granted in part, overruled in part. This is once again hearsay, and not received for the truth of the matter stated. You may respond. MR. RENSCH: Your Honor, can we approach for one moment, please? THE COURT: You may. (Bench Conference) MR. RENSCH: Your Honor, at this point I would request the government to specify the purpose for offering such testimony. In the ruling that you made and the instruction to the jury it sounds as though the Court has said JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 126
truth of the matter asserted, and then it almost was as if the jury had been instructed that it could be received for whatever was said, and from that standpoint to protect the record I would request of the government to tell us the purpose of that statement so I can protect the record. THE COURT: Anything you want to say? MR. McMAHON: Well, I don't think I have to state any purposes for offering that type of evidence. It is clearly not being offered for the truth of the matter stated. It is not hearsay for that purpose. I think that's the end of the -- MR. RENSCH: In the way the questions are framed there could be no other reason other than the fact that this happened. THE COURT: Well, it seems to me this has to do with the state of mind of Aquash and what she was doing. MR. McMAHON: It is not Mr. Peltier that is on trial. MR. RENSCH: I want to say the foundation hasn't been laid that this is what Ms. Aquash had in fact said, and thus it wouldn't be in the present impression or any exception to the hearsay rule on the basis of broad news. THE COURT: You made your record. MR. RENSCH: Thank you. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 127
BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Kamook, I think we were talking about the exchange that had taken place, the confrontation, and I believe the question that was pending was what Anna Mae Aquash, what her response was to the confrontation. You can go ahead and answer. A. She told him that if he believed that, he should go ahead and shoot her. Q. She wasn't shot, was she? A. No. Q. In June of 1975 did your relationship with Anna Mae Aquash change at that time? A. Yes. Q. Why? A. Because my, I was told that she had a relationship with Dennis. Q. Dennis Banks? A. Yes. Q. Where did you go after the conference in Farmington was completed? A. Back to Oglala. Q. Oglala is on the Pine Ridge Reservation? A. Yes. Q. Were you and Mr. Banks living there? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 128
A. Yes. Q. I am going to call your attention to June 26, 1975, were you on the Pine Ridge Reservation on that day? A. Yes. Q. Why do you remember that day specifically? MR. RENSCH: Objection, relevance, 403, and personal knowledge. THE COURT: Overruled -- relevance and what? MR. RENSCH: 403 and personal knowledge. THE COURT: Overruled. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Why do you specifically remember that day? A. Because there was a shoot-out where we live. Q. A shoot-out? A. Yes. Q. What did you do that day? A. That morning my, I had one daughter, she had asthma, so that morning she was sick, and I got up early and I took her in to Pine Ridge to the hospital. Q. Was that a daughter that Mr. Banks was the father of? A. Yes. Q. So you went to the hospital. After that where did you go? A. Pardon? JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 129
A. Well, at the hospital they told me that she wasn't going to be better later in the day, that I needed to take her to Gordon, Nebraska to the doctor. So I went to look for my mom to go with me, and they said she was in Oglala at a class. So I drove to Oglala to look for my mother at Woman Day School, and they said she had just left. So I left the school and was driving south, and when I came up onto the highway where you could see our house I saw -- MR. RENSCH: I hate to interrupt, can I have a continuing objection so I don't need to keep objecting as to what happened on June 26, 1975 on the grounds previously stated? THE COURT: Which is 403. MR. RENSCH: Relevance, and personal knowledge. THE COURT: You have your objection with regard to June 26, and overruled, but you do have one with regard to those bases with regard to that date. MR. RENSCH: Thank you, I won't interrupt any more. BY MR. McMAHON: Q. Go ahead, Ms. Nichols? A. I was driving down the highway, and I saw cop cars turning in to our property. And so I looked to the right and I saw them lined up in the fields way over here, so I turned in to see what was going on. And when I pulled up to where JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
PAGE 130
front of our house, and I saw a couple hands come out of the weeds and just waving for me to go back. So I made a U-turn and drove back out to the highway. Q. Did you hear anything? A. As I was driving away I could hear shooting. Q. What had happened that day? A. Two FBI agents and got killed. Q. Where were you in July of 1975? A. In Custer. Q. Why were you in Custer? A. Dennis was on trial for the Custer charges. Q. Were you there for the whole trial? A. Yes. Q. Where did you stay? A. At the Bavarian Inn. Q. Was Mr. Banks convicted of some of those charges? A. Yes. Q. Did Anna Mae Aquash ever attend any of the trial? A. Yes. Q. Did she ever show up at the motel? A. Yes. Q. Were there ever any allegations made against her while she was at the hotel? A. Yes. JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
|