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PAGES 91 to 105

 

PAGE 91

 

way you can, and development of informants is one tool that is

utilized by law enforcement, yes, sir.

Q. Now in December of 1975 there were informants within the

American Indian Movement, were there not, sir?

A. I don't personally know that, no.

Q. You didn't receive any information in December of 1975

from any informant of the FBI about the circumstances

surrounding Ms. Aquash's death, did you?

A. No, sir, I did not.

Q. Did you personally handle any informants in December of

1975?

A. Yes, sir, I think I probably had some informants at that

time.

Q. Did any of your informants include an individual by the

name of David Hill?

A. No, sir, that name is not -- no.

Q. Are there different levels of labels given to people who

give information to the FBI?

A. Different levels?

Q. Of labels, is there a difference say between an

informant and a cooperating witness?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there a term given to a person who might provide a

small tip about something to the FBI?

A. Yes.

JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Q. What is that, what term is it?

A. Well, it could be considered an informant.

Q. What is an operative?

A. I don't know how you are using the term, sir.

Q. Well, I want to talk about how the FBI would have used

the term in 1975?

A. That term was not a commonly used term at that era as

far as I recall.

Q. In December of 1975 were you personally in contact with

or receiving information from any known operative of the FBI

within the American Indian Movement?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know what COINTELPRO is, sir?

A. I have heard the term.

Q. Did you receive any special training while were you a

Special Agent with the FBI?

A. Special training in what?

Q. COINTELPRO?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you ever take active efforts to snitch jacket a

person?

A. To do what?

Q. Snitch jacket a person?

A. I don't know how you are using that term, sir.

Q. Did you ever take active efforts to start rumors that

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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people who were not informants were informants?

A. Absolutely not, no.

Q. Were you ever trained in any way to have informants or

operatives say that people who weren't really informants were

informants to create dissension within the American Indian

Movement?

A. As far as I know that wasn't a technique that was used.

Q. Did you ever do that?

A. No, sir.

Q. Now you knew that Ms. Aquash was approached by the FBI

and they wanted her to be an informant, did you not know that,

sir?

A. No, sir, I did not.

Q. You were not involved in that at all?

A. No, sir, I was not.

Q. Did you have a partner in the FBI?

A. We would partner up from time-to-time. We would ride

with various individuals, but to have an assigned partner at

that time, no.

Q. Was David Price a person you would ride with from

time-to-time?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. He is also an FBI agent?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you ever present when he attempted to have

JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Ms. Aquash become an informant?

A. No, sir, I was not.

Q. Were you ever instructed by him to try to recruit

Ms. Pictou-Aquash to be an informant?

A. No, sir, I was not.

Q. Did you ever take part in steps to damage the reputation

of people who refused to become informants?

A. No, sir. I mean that wasn't a part of what we did.

Q. So back in 1975, as far as you know, there was no effort

by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to plant rumors and

create dissension within the American Indian Movement, is that

your testimony?

A. I never did that, and I don't know of anyone else that

was doing that.

Q. Were you ever a party to that being done to the Black

Panthers?

MR. MANDEL: Objection, relevance.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. RENSCH:

Q. What was it you were looking for with the metal

detector, sir?

A. Any metal, any other bullets or shell casings, just a

routine.

Q. Why would it be important to find bullets if they were

in the ground near a person's body?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 95


A. Well, it could indicate a struggle, or it could indicate

a number of different things, but we wouldn't know that until

we had solved the case. I mean it is just an investigative

tool to find anything that might, specially in a situation

like that where it had been some time since the incident had

occurred, at least a month or two, and not knowing exactly how

long it had happened. It would also be to find any other

pieces of evidence. There could be bracelets, or jewelry, or

something like that. There could be all kinds of things,

metal things out there that could be beneficial to the solving

of the case.

Q. Other than the body, and what was inside the body, and

some hair strands that were found on the embankment, did you

find any other physical evidence whatsoever which told you

what happened at the scene when this poor woman was killed?

A. No, sir.

MR. RENSCH: Thank you, sir, nothing further.

THE COURT: Redirect?

MR. MANDEL: No further questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you Mr. Wood, you may step down.

Call your next witness.

MR. MANDEL: United States would call Evan Hodge,

Your Honor.

EVAN HODGE,

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and

said as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Sir, could you state your name, please?

A. My name is Evan Hodge, E-V-A-N, H-O-D-G-E.

Q. What is your current occupation, sir?

A. I am retired.

Q. Can you tell us what your previous work background is?

A. I retired earlier this, earlier last year from the

Vermont State Police Forensic Laboratory where I worked for

approximately fourteen years after my retirement from the FBI

laboratory in 1988.

Q. How long were you with the FBI laboratory, sir?

A. Approximately 26 years.

Q. Can you tell us what your duties were there at the FBI

laboratory?

A. I retired as the chief of the firearms and tool mark

identification unit. I was prior to that a firearm and tool

mark examiner.

Q. That would have been for the entire time you were there

at the lab?

A. Well, from 1970. I spent a short period of time in the

field in 1969 and 1968. Prior to that I was a technician in

the FBI laboratory prior to becoming an FBI agent. I returned

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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to the laboratory in late 1969. Stayed there until 1988 when

I retired.

Q. Was one of your duties to perform ballistic

examinations, sir?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you tell us, did you have specialized training in

order to be able to do that?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What was that?

A. Well, as I said a moment ago, I did have approximately

five years in the firearms and tool marks unit as a support

technician, which pretty well taught me the expertise of

firearms and tool marks identification. When I returned as an

agent I went through the formal aspect of training which would

include reading whatever literature that I didn't read, and

going through a series of moot courts, and visiting various

firearms manufacturing facilities to see exactly how guns were

made.

Q. Was there also educational background regarding this,

sir?

A. Well, I did, I have a Bachelors Degree and my

undergraduate studies were engineering and business

administration. I also have a Masters Degree in forensic

science, but I earned that degree after I returned to the

laboratory.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 98


Q. Sir, can you tell us generally what types of things you

are able to determine through ballistic examination?

A. Well, if we are talking about strictly a bullet, you

look at the bullet, you can determine its caliber, you can

perhaps determine who made the bullet. You can determine the

type of rifling in the gun barrel from which it was fired, and

if the rifling impressions in that bullet are sufficiently

detailed, you can identify it with the gun from which it was

fired if you have that gun.

Q. So did you conduct an investigation as to some ballistic

evidence in a case that involved the death of Anna Mae

Pictou-Aquash?

A. Yes, sir, I did.

Q. Sir, I have handed you what's been marked Exhibit No.

33. I will ask you if you recognize that item?

A. Yes, sir, I do.

Q. Can you tell us what that is?

A. This is a lead bullet which I designated as Q 11. It

was received by me from Rapid City, South Dakota in March of

1976.

Q. Did you conduct an examination of that item?

A. I did.

Q. Can you tell us what you were able to determine from

that examination, sir?

A. Very little. Only that it is a 32 caliber lead bullet

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, tt305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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of the type used in revolvers, and that is basically it.

There are no remaining rifling impressions so I could

determine the type of rifling in the gun barrel from which it

was fired. And that's basically all I could tell was that it

was a 32 caliber lead bullet.

Q. Were you able to tell anything as to the probable

manufacturer of the bullet?

A. It looks to me it is most likely of Winchester

manufacture.

Q. Is it unusual to have that little identifying material

or markings on a bullet?

A. Not at all.

Q. Why not?

A. Well, it is soft lead, so that anything that comes, it

comes in contact with it will distort the bullet. The other

very good reason for not having those marks is the condition

of the gun barrel. If the gun barrel was badly rusted, then

the bullet may never actually get involved with the lands and

grooves in the gun barrel. Or if the barrel was heavily

leaded, that could also preclude any markings from the barrel

being put on the bullet itself.

Q. So beyond the probable manufacturer and the fact that it

was 32 caliber, and probably from a handgun, is there anything

else you are able to determine, sir?

A. No, sir.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 100


Q. And you had no weapon to do any kind of comparison on,

correct?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. If you had a weapon available, would it have been

possible to do a comparison based on the condition of this

bullet?

A. No, it would not.

MR. MANDEL: I have no further questions, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Cross examine.

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RENSCH:

Q. The bullet was copper coated, is that right?

A. Yes. It is one of the reasons why I would think it is a

Winchester. There was copper coating on it.

Q. Would a bullet of that type be accurate for thirty feet?

A. At thirty feet?

Q. Urn-hum?

A. That's problematical, I don't know.

MR. RENSCH: Thank you.

THE COURT: I have a question. Sir, you mentioned

revolver, with that were you being specific as to revolver or

within that did you mean to include pistol also.

THE WITNESS: Normally, Your Honor, I am only going

by probabilities here, normally this type of bullet is found

in revolver cartridges, which is why I would say revolver.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

 

PAGE 101

 

THE COURT: Thank you, the Court's question give rise to questions by either side?

MR. MANDEL: No, Your Honor.

MR. RENSCH: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you, you may step down. Call your next witness.

MR. MANDEL: United States would call Kimberly Edwards, Your Honor.

KIMBERLY EDWARDS, called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified

and said as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Would you state your name, please?

A. My name is Kimberly Edwards.

Q. Where are you employed?

A. I am employed by the latent fingerprint unit of the FBI.

Q. Where is that located?

A. In Quantico, Virginia.

Q. Do you have a specific title there?

A. My title is physical scientist forensic examiner.

Q. And do you specifically do fingerprint work among other things?

A. That's correct.

 

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #30 5A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

 

 

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Q. How long have you been employed doing fingerprint work?

A. Just about four years.

Q. Can you tell us what your duties are in that regard?

A. I receive and inventory evidence, process the evidence

for presence and development of latent prints. I can then

compare those prints to the known prints of individuals.

Additionally I work with the hands and fingers of unknown

deceased in an attempt to effect their identification.

Q. How long have you been employed -- excuse me. Give us

your educational background, please?

A. I received an undergraduate degree in mathematics and

biology from the University of Virginia, Masters Degree from

University of Maryland at College Park in biological resources

and engineering.

Q. Did you also receive specific training regarding

fingerprints?

A. I did. I completed a two year training program with the

latent fingerprint unit with the FBI.

Q. So we understand, although I think we do, explain to us

what a fingerprint is as it is used forensically?

A. On the palmar side of the hand and soles of your feet

there is raised portions of skin, this is known as friction

ridge skin. A fingerprint is typically what is indicated as

the friction ridge skin that is present on the end joint of

the finger, usually recorded in black ink, and rolled across a

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #30 5A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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contrasting card such as a fingerprint card.

Q. Is there a specific methodology that's used to compare

fingerprints?

A. We utilize a methodology known as ACV, which stands for

Analysis, comparison, verification. The analysis portion we

look to see what identification is present in a print, the

ridge flow, pattern type, and presence of characteristics such

as the end of a ridge, dividing ridge and a dot. The

comparison portion we look at both prints to see if the same

information is present in the both prints with out an

explainable difference. In the evaluation phase we make a

determination if the two are from the same source. The last

step, the verification phase, a second qualified examiner

reviews the identification.

Q. Can you tell us what the basic factors are in the use of

fingerprints as a means of identification?

A. Fingerprints are both permanent and unique. They are

permanent in that they form prior to birth and remain

consistent throughout an individual's life barring any deep

scarring. They are unique in that the environmental and

genetic factors influence the formation of the friction ridges

and thus are unique to an individual.

Q. I believe you indicated that one of the things you

specialized in was the identification of individuals who were

deceased?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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A. That's correct.

Q. Can you tell us if there are particular problems that

arise obtaining fingerprints from deceased individuals in

general?

A. Well, there is a number of issues relative to the

condition of the hands or fingers of an individual based on

how long that person has been deceased, or where the body was

located.

Q. What types of problems?

A. Those factors might involve if they were in a very dry

or, dry area, then the fingers could be almost mummified. If

it is in a humid or wet area, they may decompose much faster.

If they are water logged or burned, that also can be a factor

in the condition of the fingers.

Q. Are you familiar with a technique whereby the hands of

the decedent are sometimes severed and sent in to the lab in

an effort to effect an identification?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you ever had the circumstance to work on any hands

in that situation?

A. I have.

Q. On how many occasions?

A. Approximately I would say three or four times that's

occurred.

Q. In total how many such identifications does the FBI

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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laboratory perform in a year?

A. The laboratory receives about nine to ten sets of hands

or fingers per year.

Q. And particularly why is that technique used, what is the

purpose of that, what does it enable you to do that couldn't

other wise be done?

A. We have the necessary tools and chemicals that we can

use in order to deal with hands or fingers that may not be in

optimal condition. The ideal condition would be you could

actually take the finger and record it, but due to the factor

I mentioned earlier, sometimes it's a little bit more

difficult. And we have a number of procedures and techniques

that we can follow to aid in the recording of the friction

ridges on the skin -- that's on the fingers, excuse me.

Q. Obviously you were not working for the FBI laboratory 28

years ago?

A. No.

Q. But did you review the file that was done in terms of

the identification of Anna Mae Pictou-Aquash?

A. I did.

Q. I will ask you first of all if you can tell from your

review what took place in that case to effect an

identification?

A. Yes, I was able to do that.

Q. What was that?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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