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PAGE 206

 

1996?

A. You know, he probably did, but I don't remember.

Q. So the lady who becomes your wife says Ray, let's go to

Pierre and let's go to Denver and that is no problem to you?

A. No, of course not.

Q. Nothing out of the ordinary about something like that?

A. No.

Q. As you went down there you didn't know really the

purpose of the trip or anything like that, did you?

A. No.

Q. And even though you were in the car listening to what

people may or may not have been saying, you didn't find out

really the purpose of the trip, did you, sir?

A. No.

Q. Then you just came back to Rapid and went about your

business?

A. Yes, I was just driving.

MR. RENSCH: That's all.

THE COURT: Anything further.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. I neglected to ask you, sir, on direct examination, what

happened to your wife Evelyn?

A. She got killed in a car accident in 1981.

MR. MANDEL: Thank you, nothing further, Your Honor.

MR. RENSCH: Nothing further.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGES 207


THE COURT: Thank you, you may step down.

MR. MANDEL: United States would call Joan Decker.

JOAN DECKER,

called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and

said as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. State your name, please?

A. My name is Joan Decker.

Q. Could you spell that for the Court Reporter, please?

A. J-O-A-N, D-E-C-K-E-R.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I am the enrollment director for the Oglala Sioux Tribe.

Q. How long have you had that position?

A. I have been there for 29 years.

Q. As enrollment director what do you do there at the

tribe?

A. I keep track of the vital statistics for the tribe, and

issue enrollment numbers to the people that are eligible for

enrollment.

Q. To be eligible for enrollment what are the requirements?

A. At least one parent must be an enrolled member and a

resident of the Pine Ridge Reservation.

Q. Did you conduct a search of the enrollment records for

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Fritz Arlo Looking Cloud?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What were you able to find out?

A. That he is an enrolled member.

Q. Do you have a copy of the enrollment record before you?

A. Yes, I do.

(Exhibit 42 marked For identification.)

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. I am showing you what's been marked Exhibit 42, is that

the enrollment record that you obtained?

A. Yes, it is.

MR. MANDEL: I offer Exhibit 42 at this time, Your

Honor.

MR. RENSCH: No objection.

THE COURT: Exhibit 42 is received.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. What does that state regarding Fritz Arlo Looking Cloud?

A. It shows that Fritz Arlo Looking Cloud is listed on the

Pine Ridge Indian Reservation since this ledger established

1908, revised 1956, an official record of this agency as being

four fourths degree Oglala Sioux Indian blood with enroll

number you 22849 and was born March 25, 1951.

MR. MANDEL: I have no further questions, Your

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Honor.

MR. RENSCH: No questions.

THE COURT: Thank you, Ma'am, you may step down.

MR. MANDEL: The United States would call Angie

Janis, Your Honor.

ANGIE JANIS,

called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and

said as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Would you state your name, please?

A. Angie Janis.

Q. Can you spell your last name?

A. J-A-N-I-S.

Q. Where do you live?

A. Pine Ridge, South Dakota.

Q. Are you employed down there?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. What do you do for a living?

A. I am a self-determination assistant.

Q. Who are you employed by?

A. Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Q. How long have you been a BIA employee?

A. About ten years.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Q. Has that all been in the same job?

A. No.

Q. What other jobs have you had there?

A. I worked for the Pine Ridge school. That was under the

bureau too.

Q. Are you originally from Pine Ridge?

A. No.

Q. Where are you from originally?

A. Minnesota.

Q. Back in the 1970's, particularly at the end of 1975,

where were you living?

A. In Denver.

Q. What were you doing down there in Denver at that time?

A. I was working as a secretary.

Q. Who were you employed by?

A. Native American Rights Fund.

Q. Was that located up in Boulder, Colorado?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you also at that time familiar with the American

Indian Movement in Denver?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was your acquaintance with that?

A. I just was involved with the movement.

Q. Would you consider yourself a member of AIM?

A. I was.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Q. Were you also involved in a relationship at that time

with an individual named John Graham or John Boy Patton?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you first become involved with him?

A. I think the summer of '75.

Q. What name did you know him by?

A. John Boy.

Q. Was the last name Patton?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the two of you live together during that period of

time?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have your own residence?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that in Denver?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you also know an individual by the name of Troy Lynn

Yellow Wood?

A. Yes,

Q. How did you know her?

A. Through her aunt.

Q. And her aunt would be?

A. Theda Clark.

Q. Troy Lynn Irving also known as Troy Lynn Yellow Wood?

A. Yes.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Q. How did you know Theda Clark?

A. She was involved in the movement.

Q. And you just met her through that?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you first meet her?

A. I think in '74, but I am not sure.

Q. Did you spend any time over at Troy Lynn Irving's

residence?

A. Yes.

Q. And what would you go there for?

A. Just to visit.

Q. Do you remember where she lived at that time?

A. Yes, on Pecos.

Q. What type of structure was it that she lived in, a house

or an apartment?

A. Kind of a triplex or something like that.

Q. Did a lot of people from AIM tend to meet over there at

that time?

A. I am not sure.

Q. Well, normally if you would be going over there why did

you go there?

A. Just to visit.

Q. Do you remember a particular time when you came to Troy

Lynn's residence when somebody was taken from there?

A. Yes.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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Q. Can you tell us how that came about?

A. I got a call, I was working at the Native American

Rights Fund, and I got a call from Thelma Rios.

MR. RENSCH: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay.

THE COURT: Either move the microphone up this way a

little ways away from you, or sit back a little bit, you get a

little bit of feedback in to it. Just a moment. Thank you.

Not thus far, overruled.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. You were saying you got a call there at the Native

American Rights Fund?

A. I got a call from Thelma, and I can't remember the --

Q. Thelma who?

A. Thelma Rios.

Q. What did she say to you at that time?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, this isn't being offered

for the truth of what is asserted, but simply to show what

prompted the actions she took.

THE COURT: On that limited basis I will allow it.

With a limiting instruction again. This isn't to say that

whatever might have been said was true, so it is not admitted

for the truth of the matter stated. It apparently is being

offered for some action that subsequently was taken to show

JERRY J. MAY. RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, tt305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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the basis for that action, but not necessarily that what ever

is being stated now is true. With that limiting instruction

you can answer.

A. I can't remember the exact words, but something to do

with Anna Mae was an informant and needs to come back to

Rapid, something like that.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. What were you supposed to do?

A. Just tell someone in Denver.

Q. Who did you tell?

A. I am not sure who I told. Theda or John Boy, Theda

Clark or John Boy, I don't remember who exactly I told.

Q. What happened after you did that? Did you at some point

go to Troy Lynn's house?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you go there?

A. To tell someone.

Q. That is when you informed them that Anna Mae needed to

be taken to South Dakota?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened then once you were there at the house?

A. I think they called some people there to Troy Lynn's

house, and they all met upstairs in the kitchen.

Q. Let me ask you, did you know Anna Mae Aquash prior to

that?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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A. Yes.

Q. How did you know her?

A. Through various meetings, conference, places where AIM

was, she was there.

Q. When did you first know her?

A. I am not sure.

Q. Were you present at Wounded Knee?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you meet her there?

A. No, I never -- no.

Q. Did you know she had been staying at Troy Lynn's?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have any idea how long she had been there?

A. No. No.

Q. Did you have any discussions with her while she was

there?

A. With Anna Mae?

Q. Yes.

A. We visited.

Q. Did she say why she was there?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Were you aware that she had jumped bond on the trial

that she had in South Dakota?

A. I am not sure.

Q. And I don't know if I asked you, but do you recall about

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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what date this all happened?

A. No. I think it was November, but I don't know the date.

Q. Of 1975?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it possible it was even in to December?

A. No, I don't think so.

Q. After you conveyed this message, went to the house

there, do you recall what happened next?

A. They had a meeting, and I think, I know she was

downstairs, had a meeting in the kitchen, and they called some

people in from the Mexican movement, but I don't remember who

they were.

Q. The movement called the Crusade for Justice?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember an Ernesto Vijil?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, leading. Your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Do you recall how many people were at the meeting?

A. No.

Q. Do you remember any of the people who attended the

meeting?

A. Yes. I think I do.

Q. Who was there?

A. Troy Lynn, Arlo, John Boy, George Palfey, Ernesto, and I

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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think there was someone else, but I don't know who the other

person was.

Q. I am sorry, didn't get the last name?

A. The Ernesto that you mentioned.

Q. When you say Arlo, are you referring to Arlo Looking

Cloud?

A. Yes.

Q. How long had you known Arlo at that time?

A. Maybe I just met him about a month or less maybe, I am

not real sure about that.

Q. Do you recognize him seated in the courtroom today?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell me where he is seated and what he is

wearing?

A. Gray shirt and glasses.

MR. MANDEL: I ask the record to indicate the

defendant has been identified. Your Honor.

THE COURT: It may.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. ' Over the years between 1975 and today have you seen Arlo

on other occasions?

A. Yes, in Denver.

Q. Has it been quite a while since you have seen him?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember what was being discussed at that

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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meeting?

A. That she was an informant, and I don't know, someone

mentioned what they do, the Crusade mentioned what they do to

informants.

Q. And what was it they said they do to informants?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: Just a moment. We are going to have an

evidentiary recess at this point. We will have a recess for

about ten minutes, don't talk about the case nor the

witnesses. Please stand for the jury.

(Jury Leaves ).

THE COURT: Please be seated. I want to hear

argument on this point.

MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, very simply this is a

meeting at which Arlo Looking Cloud was present, this goes

directly to his intent and knowledge. Let me ask the question

and get out what was said.

THE COURT: Well, go ahead.

MR. MANDEL: For the purpose of this discussion

only, Your Honor.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. What did they say they did with informants?

A. He made some kind of motion. They go like this to them

he said.

Q. What did you understand that to mean?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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A. Probably that they do away with them.

Q. That they kill them?

A. Yes.

Q. Cut their throats?

A. Yeah.

MR. MANDEL: Okay, thank you. Your Honor, this is a

meeting which she was present at, Arlo Looking Cloud was

present at, and it is certainly not offered for the truth of

what was asserted. I don't care what the Crusade for Justice

did with informants, you know, if there is any accuracy to

that or not, but what it goes to is his knowledge at the time

that the victim was taken from that house in Denver, Colorado,

and it is not hearsay evidence, it is not offered for their

purpose, and it bears directly on the issue that is in

contention in this case.

THE COURT: I will hear from the defense.

MR. RENSCH: If you look at the way that this

question was phrased, at the point I was making the objection

and you asked for the evidentiary hearing, she was asked what

was said by the person from the Mexican movement and what she

took that to mean. Well, the statement is this is what we do

to them in our movement. What she took that to mean was they

kill people in the movement. It is clearly for the truth of

the matter asserted. The person who said this is not

available for any cross examination what so ever. It is more

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

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prejudicial than it is probative, and it is simply the truth

of the matter asserted any way you slice it. And it will be

argued as such at the end, because they will say, well, he

should have known if this person from the Mexican movement is

saying we kill informants. So I think it is clear hearsay, it

would be a violation of the confrontation clause to allow it,

and we request that it be excluded.

THE COURT: Anything further, you are standing.

MR. MANDEL: Yes. Candidly, Your Honor, I think it

is a complete misapprehension of the hearsay rule on the part

of counsel. It is not being offered for the truth of what is

being asserted, it makes no difference whether or not it was

true that they ever did anything to an informant in the

movement, or if it was just bravado, or what it was. The

point is that statement was made in front of the defendant,

that that was knowledge that he had, and that is the

significance of it. It is not a question of it being

admissible hearsay, it is a question of it isn't hearsay at

all that is being offered in this case.

THE COURT: Well, who is he that drew his finger

across the throat?

THE WITNESS: I think it was Ernesto. It was either

him or the other guy, I don't remember for sure.

THE COURT: Was Mr. Looking Cloud there when that

happened.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

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