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PAGES 131 to 145

 

 

PAGE 131

 

Q. Could you tell me what those were?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained in part, again a limiting

instruction. It is hearsay, at least on the basis of the

record that we have at this point, and it is not received for

the truth of whether or not those things were in fact said,

and so it is so limited.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Go ahead and answer the question. You don't remember

the question you look like?

A. Yes, the allegations were made.

Q. What were the allegations that were made?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, foundation, time and place,

who was present.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Were you present when the allegations were made?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that at the hotel?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the allegation that you heard?

A. Dennis and myself and my daughter were in our room when

Crow Dog came in.

Q. Who was that?

A. Leonard Crow Dog. He came in and he was very angry. He

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 132


was yelling, and he told Dennis that he had kicked Anna Mae

off of his property, she was a fed, he didn't want her on his

property.

Q. She was a fed, is that what you said?

A. Yes.

Q. Where is Mr. Crow Dog's property?

A. In Rosebud, South Dakota.

Q. Why was Anna Mae there?

A. At Crow Dog's?

Q. Yes.

A. She had been camping down there.

Q. Was that a place where a number of AIM members camped?

A. Yes.

Q. You stated that Mr. Banks was convicted of some of the

charges. Was he let out on bond after the trial?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember when he was supposed to report back for

his sentencing?

A. September 5th.

Q. Where did you go after the trial?

A. We went to Crow Dog's.

Q. So that is the same place that Anna Mae had been

staying?

A. Yes.

Q. What was going on at Crow Dog's when you went there?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 133


A. We were getting ready for the sundance.

Q. Were there often sundances held there?

A. Annually.

Q. What time of the year was the sundance this year in

1975?

A. The first week of August.

Q. Is that usually when it was?

A. Yes.

Q. So were you there just for the sundance, or were you

camping there also?

A. We were there camping for the sundance.

Q. How long did you stay at Crow Dog's?

A. Maybe a week.

Q. Camp there the whole time?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were you living permanently at that time?

A. Our residence had been Oglala before that.

Q. So you still had the home in Oglala?

A. Well, at the time then we were just camping because our

home had been pretty much destroyed after the shoot-out.

Q. So the sundance took place in August you said?

A. Yes.

Q. You were there for about a week or so, is that what you

said?

A. Yeah, we camped about a week.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 134


Q. Where did you go after that?

A. To Colorado.

Q. Why did you go to Colorado?

A. Because we were hiding from the government.

Q. When you say we went to Colorado, who went?

A. Dennis, Leonard Peltier, myself, my sister Barbara

Roubideau.

Q. Did Dennis Banks go back for his sentencing at Custer?

A. No.

Q. Is that why you were hiding in Colorado?

A. Yes.

Q. I call your attention to September 5, 1975. Were you

still in Colorado, or were you back by then?

A. No, we left the day before.

Q. Had you returned to South Dakota from Colorado prior to

that -- let me back up. How long were you in Colorado?

A. For a few weeks.

Q. After you left Colorado, where did you go?

A. To Parmalee, South Dakota.

Q. When did you go to Parmalee?

A. Maybe the middle of September, before the end of

September.

Q. Were you back in South Dakota at all prior to September

5th of 1975?

A. I don't think so. Well, September 5th is when he was

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 135


supposed to be sentenced.

Q. Where were you at on September 4th?

A. At Crow Dog's.

Q. So you were still at Crow Dog's for the sundance?

A. Yes, we left Crow Dog's the day before he was to be

sentenced.

Q. So the sundance I thought you said was in August, but

you were still there at the first part of September?

A. Yes.

Q. How do you remember that you left on September 4th?

A. Because part of Dennis', the conditions were that he

needed to call in every day to the Sheriff's office and report

while we were there. So he used to call in every day, and

then the day before sentencing, the night before he said that

he wasn't calling the next day and we were leaving.

Q. So you left, and is that when you left for Colorado

then?

A. Yes.

Q. I am sorry, I was confused. So did you hear of anything

happening on September 5th then?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay, confrontation

clause, 403, and relevance.

MR. McMAHON: I will rephrase it. Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well.

BY MR. McMAHON:

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 136


Q. Did you hear of a law enforcement raid at Crow Dog's on

September 5th?

A. Yes. Can I say that it was August 5th is when Dennis

was supposed to report actually. I am sorry.

Q. We are confused here again, let's go back. What day was

he supposed to report for sentencing?

A. August 5th.

Q. What day did you leave for Colorado?

A. August 4th.

Q. So then when did you return from Colorado?

A. Then toward the end of August.

Q. So you were back in South Dakota then after you came

back from Colorado?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you come to after?

A. To Parmalee.

Q. So that's when you went to Parmalee?

A. Yes.

Q. How long were you at Parmalee?

A. A couple of weeks.

Q. You were around the Pine Ridge Reservation and Rosebud

Reservation then at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you leave again?

A. Soon after September 5th.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 137


Q. So you were where on September 5th of 1975?

A. I was in Pine Ridge.

Q. And where is Parmalee in relationship to Leonard Crow

Dog' s ?

A. Maybe thirty miles away. It is not far.

Q. Did you become aware of a law enforcement raid at Crow

Dog's on September 5th?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you find out had happened on that day?

A. That they had come and raided his property and several

people had been arrested.

Q. Who had been arrested?

A. Anna Mae, Leroy Casados, Dino Butler.

Q. You said you left again shortly after September 5th. Do

you remember what day that would have been?

A. It was just the next day, it was soon after. It was a

few days after, because once we went back to Parmalee we

stayed there for a few days, and then Bob Roubideau suggested

we leave because there were a lot of helicopters and stuff

flying around.

Q. So did you leave South Dakota then?

A. Yes.

Q. Who did you leave with?

A. It was Bob, my sister, Keith DeMarias, Norman Charles,

Jean Roach, and myself and my daughter.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877


PAGE 138

 

Q. Was Dennis Banks with you?

A. No.

Q. Where had he gone?

A. I am not sure where he was at the moment.

Q. Where were you heading?

A. To Oklahoma.

Q. Where in Oklahoma?

A. Shawnee.

Q. Is that where your aunt lives?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened on the way?

A. While we were traveling, at night we left the Rosebud or

Parmalee at night, we were having trouble with our muffler on

our car, so we stopped in Valentine and we had the muffler

checked, and we kept driving and the next day we were on the

Kansas Turnpike by Wellington.

MR. RENSCH: At this point I object to relevance,

she is narrating, also 403 as it relates to this case.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. And we were driving down the Interstate, and our car

started smoking, and we pulled over, and we all jumped out of

the car and it exploded.

Q. The car exploded?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did it explode?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR. CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 139


A. Because there was dynamite in there.

Q. You were carrying dynamite?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you get arrested?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you taken to jail?

A. Yes.

Q. Where at?

A. In Wichita.

Q. How long were you in jail?

A. About three weeks,

Q. Then did you get bonded out?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go after you bonded out?

A. Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Q. Where did you go from there?

A. I came back to South Dakota.

Q. Why did you come back to South Dakota?

A. My Grandma was having a memorial dinner for my uncle.

Q. The uncle that was killed at Wounded Knee?

A. Yes.

Q. When was it that you came back to South Dakota for that

memorial?

A. In October.

Q. Did you have an occasion to meet up with Dennis Banks

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 140


again then?

A. Yes.

Q. How did that come about?

A. I was at the dinner which he had held at Wounded Knee,

it was outside. A couple people came over to me and said to

me that when it is over that I just needed to go with them.

Q. Did you do that then?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go?

A. To Oglala.

Q. Where did you go in Oglala?

A. To the Hill house.

Q. Who was there?

A. It was Dennis and Leonard and Dave Hill and then me.

Q. Dennis Banks?

A. Yes.

Q. Leonard Peltier?

A. Yes.

Q. Dave Hill you said?

A. Yes.

Q. And Anna Mae?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do then?

A. It was in, it was late already, we got there and Dave

and Leonard took Anna Mae in to the adjoining room and they

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 141


were making her make bombs.

Q. Why were they doing that?

A. For the sake of the fingerprints being on the bomb.

Q. What was going do be done with the bombs?

A. There was discussion about where these bombs would be

placed in Pine Ridge.

Q. Were they placed somewhere then?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you there when they placed them?

A. Yes.

Q. Who placed the bombs?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, relevance, 403.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. Dave Hill and Leonard got out of the car and told Anna

Mae to get out with them, and they laid the bombs by the two

power plants in Pine Ridge.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Where did you go from there?

A. To Chadron, Nebraska.

Q. Why did you go to Chadron?

A. There was a motor home there that we were going to pick

up.

Q. Did you pick up the motor home?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you travel in the motor home then?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 142


A. Yes.

Q. Who was in the motor home?

A. It was Leonard Peltier, Dennis, my sister, my daughter,

Anna Mae, Kenny Loud Hawk, and Dave Hill.

Q. Why was Anna Mae along?

A. I think Anna Mae was there because Dennis and Leonard

were watching her.

Q. Where did you go?

A. We traveled to Montana, but we spent a couple days

because the weather was really bad, we couldn't travel, and

then we went to Washington state.

Q. Where did you go in Washington state?

A. To John Chiquiti's.

Q. Was that a friend?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he have a ranch, or a home, or something there?

A. He owned a home that was isolated out in the country.

Q. Did you camp there?

A. Yes.

Q. How long did you stay there?

A. Probably a few weeks.

Q. Who was camping there?

A. Dennis, Leonard, my sister and myself, my daughter, Anna

Mae, Kenny Loud Hawk.

Q. Were you there because you were hiding?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 143


A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever leave there with your sister?

A. Her and I had court in Kansas, and we left at one point

and we flew back for the court hearing, and she decided to

stay there, so I returned to Washington.

Q. While you were camping in Washington state, was Anna Mae

allowed to leave by herself?

A. No.

Q. Was she always being watched?

A. Somebody always went around with her.

Q. Were there any allegations or accusations made toward

her while were you camping in Washington state?

A. Yes.

Q. Who made those?

A. Leonard.

Q. Did you hear him?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: I am sorry, what?

MR. RENSCH: Hearsay.

THE COURT: It is hearsay. It is not received for

the truth of the matter stated, but with that limitation it is

received into evidence. You may answer.

BY MR. McMAHON:

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 144


Q. What did Mr. Peltier say?

A. He said that he believed she was a fed, and that he was

going to get some truth serum and give it to her so that she

would tell the truth.

Q. While you were camping in Washington, were there any

discussions had in which you and Anna Mae were present in

which sensitive material that you wouldn't have wanted in the

hands of law enforcement was discussed?

A. Yes.

Q. Give me an example?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. We were sitting one day at the table in this motor home.

Anna Mae was sitting by me and my sister was on the other

side, and Dennis was standing in the aisle, and Leonard was

sitting on this side, he alternated between sitting and

standing. And he started talking about June 26, and he put

his hand like this and started talking about the two FBI

agents.

Q. What did he say?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, more prejudicial than

probative. And hearsay.

THE COURT: Well, that is overruled. But what he

said is hearsay, but it is received not for the truth of the

matter stated, received only for a limited purpose, go ahead.

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

 

PAGE 145


BY MR. McMAHON:.

Q. Tell the Court as best you remember exactly what he

said?

A. Exactly what he said.

Q. Exactly what he said?

A. He said the motherfucker was begging for his life, but I

shot him anyway.

Q. Had you ever heard that before?

A. No.

Q. Where did you go when you left Washington?

A. We started traveling south on the Interstate.

Q. Would that take you in to Oregon?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened when you got in to Oregon?

A. We got stopped by the Highway Patrol.

Q. What happened when you were stopped by the Highway

Patrol?

MR. RENSCH: Same series of objections, more

prejudicial than probative, relevance, and 403.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. They made us, it was one officer, and he made us get out

of the motor home.

Q. Did everyone get out of the motor home?

A. No.

Q. Who stayed in?

JERRY J. MAY, RPR, CM 400 South Phillips Avenue, #305A
Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 (605) 330-4877

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